As we continue to introduce our co-hosts, join us for an introspective conversation with our co-host Dahabe as we explore her captivating life journey. Ever wondered how someone with a background in akhlaq teaching - the Islamic study of manners, spends their weekends? Spoiler alert: it involves teaching at Madrasa and going for hikes. Come along as we reminisce about her earliest and happiest memories.
Discover how moving from the city of Awaday to Kenya and then the US at the tender age of nine shaped Dahabe's life and understanding of different cultures. Listen as she opens up about the importance of finding an accessible support system and navigating expectations from oneself and family. We also delve into the world of self-worth, marriage, and success, touching on the emotional and psychological toll these can have on a person.
In this heartfelt episode, our co-host shares her wisdom on how to separate self-worth from the outcome of the marriage process and redefine what success really means. As we empower and validate our listeners, remember that taking a chance on yourself is essential because you matter and are loved. Share your thoughts and experiences with us in the comments section or on our Instagram page as we continue this enriching conversation.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
As we continue to introduce our co-hosts, join us for an introspective conversation with our co-host Dahabe as we explore her captivating life journey. Ever wondered how someone with a background in akhlaq teaching - the Islamic study of manners, spends their weekends? Spoiler alert: it involves teaching at Madrasa and going for hikes. Come along as we reminisce about her earliest and happiest memories.
Discover how moving from the city of Awaday to Kenya and then the US at the tender age of nine shaped Dahabe's life and understanding of different cultures. Listen as she opens up about the importance of finding an accessible support system and navigating expectations from oneself and family. We also delve into the world of self-worth, marriage, and success, touching on the emotional and psychological toll these can have on a person.
In this heartfelt episode, our co-host shares her wisdom on how to separate self-worth from the outcome of the marriage process and redefine what success really means. As we empower and validate our listeners, remember that taking a chance on yourself is essential because you matter and are loved. Share your thoughts and experiences with us in the comments section or on our Instagram page as we continue this enriching conversation.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
As-salamu alaikum, welcome to difficult conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education.
Speaker 2:As-salamu alaikum, hello everybody, welcome to difficult conversations. In this episode we'll be diving in to get to know a little bit more about our third co-host on this series, about us and introducing ourselves to our audience. and it's going to be the habit our favorite person, our favorite therapist yes, am I going back into that voice? Oh, my God. So the habit? how are you?
Speaker 3:doing today. I'm good, alhamdulillah, i'm good So.
Speaker 2:I don't know why I answered both of us. I'm doing good. How are you that? I'm sure.
Speaker 1:Alhamdulillah doing good, good, good.
Speaker 2:So I want to ask you a couple of like questions and then we can dive a little bit deeper in and I'm sure we'll feel free to jump in. So tell me how you spend your weekend normally. What does your weekend look like?
Speaker 3:Saturday I have to teach in the morning, so I go to Madrasa and I teach 8th graders a clock, and in the afternoon I come home just kind of chill a little bit. If the weather is great, then I go hiking. in the afternoon I go for a walk and then usually I just come home and maybe read a book and just hang out at home. Sundays, like usually, sunday morning I have a breakfast with ladies. So we have this breakfast and kind of like meet up and just discuss how everybody's week is going and what's going on, because we don't talk to each other throughout the week.
Speaker 1:So you said you're an akhlaq teacher. How does that happen?
Speaker 3:So it started. I think about four years ago one of the Madrasa directors approached me and they want me to a filling for a couple classes and I said, you know, sure, why not? Because I think akhlaq is a very interesting topic and I think that's the way to understand a better of human behavior as well, but from Islamic perspective. And when she did approach me, i loved akhlaq as it is and I'm taking classes with the sheikh in the Masjid as well. So at that point I was like, okay, and then. But I started with younger kids. I started with they are nine and 10 years old and then eventually, recently in the past two years, i moved into eighth graders, middle school, and that's also different age groups. So you get to see a lot of the challenges that young Muslim students are dealing with in school.
Speaker 1:What is akhlaq? Because I feel like we hear about like akhlaq and stuff like that, but I've never heard of an akhlaq class.
Speaker 3:So akhlaq is about manners Directly. How do you show up socially, what type of behaviors, manners that you have in social interactions, how do you empathy, gratitude, awareness, and also akhlaq is contemplation what Allah is like, the creation of Allah when you are, what nature is? who created those natures? What are responsibilities on with trees? Do you have conversation with trees when you see the trees, the beauty of the trees, and akhlaq has just. How do you navigate in the world from the Islamic perspective? and all of that has positive deeds. For example, like opening the door for someone. We do this every single day but we don't realize that's part of akhlaq. Like smiling It's akhlaq. Smile is the sunnah right And so that's also akhlaq. So that's what akhlaq is Overall. It's just kind of manners and actions and how you show up in the world.
Speaker 2:That is so interesting. I feel like I need to take that class myself. My next question is a little bit deeper and but still light. What is the earliest happiest memory that you have?
Speaker 3:I would say eat. I remember I don't know what year it is, i probably have to say I'm seven or eight at that point And I remember taking my younger sibling and I. We all got dressed up And my parents gave us our eat money. And at back home in Ethiopia there is a city called Adere, in Isharar, next door to Awaday, and so going from Awaday to Adere for eat is kind of like really fun activities because you go to restaurants, have ice cream and you play by the pool because there is a pool there.
Speaker 3:That was the first experiences that my younger brother and sisters had, and so they were looking forward to it. So it's like me taking them and being with them in that experience was the most incredible experience to this day. There's actually a picture that somebody sent from back home of that day And every time I look at that picture I just remember how being the older sister and being able to like show them how to have fun And my mom, my parents are so amazing about that is you don't have your chores, you don't have to do anything for three days of eat. You just kind of like go have fun. I would say that's one of the best memories I have. That's nice.
Speaker 1:Where's your family from and how many siblings do you have?
Speaker 3:So my family's from Awaday. The city of Awaday is located between Haramaya and Adere And there are other smaller cities in between. Awaday is probably well known now because of all the autumn protests, because we say that Awaday people are Jaina. I mean they're very brave lion because they're not afraid to fight for their causes. And so I'm from Awaday and I have six siblings and I'm the middle child of we're seven overall, but I'm the middle child. I have three older and three younger, So I'm like right in the middle.
Speaker 2:You know it's funny. I've always thought that you were the youngest. in my head you're the youngest, but then that makes sense because you're the youngest here, right? Yes, yeah, i feel to be the middle child who ends up being the youngest child here.
Speaker 3:So that's very conflicting because technically you're not the youngest, but then you get treated like the youngest when you move here at the young age. I moved here at the age of nine and so I'm treated like young person, but I'm not the youngest and I still also feel like I exhibit this behavior of being the older sister too, because I have younger siblings younger than me and I have that responsibility as well Who are back home, who are back home, and my older siblings, who are here, treats me like the baby. So which kind of I get that conflicted emotional experience? I'm like well, technically I'm not the youngest, just leave me alone. Or being I'm like okay, well, i think they also knew in some aspect to kind of let me be and kind of give me that autonomy and independence in the way of me doing things, because I was raised by my siblings, specifically my brother, my older brother, and so he gave me a lot of autonomy to kind of navigate a lot of the things.
Speaker 2:Did you guys come here straight from Ethiopia or did you go through Kenya or?
Speaker 3:something. We went through Kenya as well, like just like many East African, i would say specifically Somalis and Oramos. We came through the Kenya process. My brother moved here first and then I came after him. Me and my other older brother came after that. I would say that experience itself was kind of like a deja vu for me, because you're young, you don't have understanding of comprehending the movement, the changes that's happening, and you don't know why you're moving. And then, unfortunately, adult in our life, they don't tell you why you're moving, where you're going, they just know that you have to leave this place and that's it. And if you're young, your brain is not fully understanding of what this transition is going to look like for you. And so, moving to Kenya for that one first year, i would say probably the hardest, but at the same time I didn't know. I didn't know what the hardship is supposed to be. But it didn't look like a hardship, it was just a normality based on what everybody else is. Who's living in that space.
Speaker 1:Do you have memories from your time in Kenya? How was that?
Speaker 3:I do because there's a lot of young kids like myself who are coming from hotter areas. We all lived in the same neighborhood. Which neighborhood Isli, isli, yes, so we all lived there in front of the supermarket. We would meet outside and play there, or if somebody has a TV, we'll watch TV.
Speaker 1:So young when I was in Kenya that I wasn't exposed to that.
Speaker 3:Because adults they do barca. You guys know what barca is. So what are our kids do when people do barca? Kids play with you know, with the rocks, you know the five rocks. Yes.
Speaker 2:Calm. What is it called Girir?
Speaker 3:Yes, So we play that over there and you do the things on the ground that you play, you jump, and then you like The hopscotch. Yes, so you play that. Or you play hada, drogs, drogs, jump, roping, interesting.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, we would do that. They're all Oromos who speak the same language, so obviously easy to connect with that, and so it would be just like that was the experience of being living in Kenya for me, because every other aspect of it challenges that I may experience there is probably gone for me.
Speaker 1:So then, how was it different when you came to the US? The?
Speaker 3:US is a little bit different, because I came in May of 1999 and it was summer and they directly put us in summer school. So no English, couldn't read, couldn't write, no English, zero, and they put us in summer school. I would constantly feel this level of anxiety going to school. There are a couple Oromo kids who are so in similar situation as I am and we will just kind of play around in recess time just outside. I didn't know what recess was, but we play outside, we're in dream and then that's when we connect. We can play, we can talk in our own language. That's the one thing that I look forward to. when I was, you know, when we first moved here, because, was that in Minnesota? Yeah, we moved to Minnesota, we lived here for the past 20 years, 20 something years right now And so, yeah, moving here was a lot harder than Kenya, i would say.
Speaker 2:So I just feel like for most people, Kenya was an extended vacation. If they were there for a short time, you know what I mean. There are people there that just passing through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were passing through. There are people there that have been there for a very long time and that's very difficult, but for some that have been there under less than two years for me too, it was like an extended vacation. I didn't feel the tr-. and then also, you know economical standards, processes, right, yeah, how much money you have, it's like that. But that brings us to my different question, which is how was that adaptation? How was that change? like going to school not knowing the language and then coming home, did your parents or your family members here have expectations for you and how you were supposed to like perform in the schools? and, if so, like where did you have resources that could help you catch up as a person that doesn't, and what grade was that exactly when you came here?
Speaker 3:I directly started the eighth grade.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God okay.
Speaker 3:I think the first two years of moving to America was, i would say, the hardest part of my life, i would say because one of the things that happens to you as a young person you need your parents. It doesn't matter whether you have siblings, whether you have aunt and uncles who can, but having a parent, whether however good or bad it is, it's kind of give you a little bit of taking that burden away from you. Or you have a safe space to kind of breathe when you come home from school, because the school is a chaotic environment as it is, because you don't speak the language you're trying to adjust to and just do everything based on nonverbal aspect of it just listening and somebody's directing you to go somewhere. You just do that. And when somebody asks you any question, i didn't know how to answer because one of the things that I remember is that me and my brother we started with the same school and I would ask him to speak for us because I didn't know how to speak English. So any place that he would go, he would try to speak in his broken English to express all the things that he needed from the office, the main office at school.
Speaker 3:So going to the school it felt like constant anxiety experiences. If anybody understand what that feels like. Oh yeah, it's because every day you're nervous. Every day you're like, what do I say, how do I do, who do I speak to And what classes do I go to? And if I miss my classes, what am I going to do? Because nobody sit down and give you an actual orientation on what school looks like. Because unfortunately in our community again, i don't think it's a bad thing on them, but the other thing is just, the fact is that there's not resources to tell you hey, when you go to school, you go to this place, the office, and when you go to the office you tell them this here is the note and keep it to the people at the office. Nobody tells you that They just drop you in the pool and tell you to swim.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. So they just tell you to swim and you swim And I think it's yes, you become very brave, you become very courageous because of that experience. But it's unnecessary brave and courageous that you have to build within yourself. It's unnecessary stress. Exactly, it is definitely unnecessary stress. But as far as academic concern, i don't think my family had. They're like yeah, just do your best, and there wasn't a stress, but I think the stress became from me. I put those stresses on myself because I'm a big believer on. I believe I still do like to be the most educated person. This is why you came to America To get a better opportunity, don't waste it. That mindset somehow, whether it's indirect or directly, being drilled in my head. So when I was here, i wasn't here to mess around. I'm here in a focused purpose. But then it's so internalized for me that I embody that as I walk through the life in America from that point until even today.
Speaker 1:So you kind of already knew life back home and then comparing it to here and stuff like that and having that guilt feeling of always wanting to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, So Pohu was the habit. How was the habit like when she was back home and how was that different from the habit? that was like an eighth grade and ninth grade here.
Speaker 3:I would say the habit back home was a lot more freer, even though she had responsibilities and chores and things that she had to do to be able to help around the house. But she's a lot more freer, she's more in her comfort zone. She led her life with restriction because she's in her community, her family, her neighbors, she knows everybody, she knows everything, she knows what things are and she knows how to get to places without even asking. She's been doing it, so that has been a normal for her And I'm talking to my third person.
Speaker 2:That's the way I framed the question. I apologize.
Speaker 3:No, no, it's fine. The habit here had the responsibility of fear, had played a huge role and fear of not disappointing your family Constantly. to be the best, like. they should be proud of you. even they don't see it. When it comes to academic, when it comes to socialization, when it comes to meeting people, like, make the best impression on everybody because your parents are not here. So when they hear about you, they should be proud of you automatically because of what the things that you have to do.
Speaker 3:So when they say, like, carry your family into the tea, i really did that, but it played well for how I showed up to be coming from the family that I'm from, because that impression, keeping the impression, making sure that people are satisfied with you is the thing that my parents are really happy. Be the person that I raise you to be. They would tell you that even if I'm not with you. be the person that I raise you to be. And I'm like but how do I do that? Well, just stay out of trouble. But how do I stay out of trouble? Well, don't get involved in the things that you're not supposed to. So, yeah, i would say that worked well for her to be in that position, but at the same time as an adult, and so many was like well, did I do that for myself? Did that make any difference? You're just like a small element of the other problems that they're dealing with.
Speaker 2:I think that's because you're not a problem right, That's why you're such a small element. But I think also the way you were talking about how the pressure of being good, it's like almost it's the survival and the savior complex, because you have to hold your name of the family, you have to protect it and you have to make sure that you don't bring shame to it, and so on and so forth. So there's so many burden and so much responsibility on an eighth grader when she's separated from her parents that could just like smack her on the head and be like put you know, or they could speak for themselves, and so on and so forth. So I can understand why that personality would defer from who she was the free, liberated, just going, you know, independent person to a very responsible, restricted person. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:So just going how you said earlier that you know you were anxious and stuff like that when you would go to school, did that get better And how long did it take?
Speaker 3:It got better because everything gets better with time And I have to kind of attribute to that I'm going to have to highlight it here and maybe I'll highlight it again in the story as I continue to talk about this is that I would say the dual of your parents are sometimes are bigger than yourself And I believe, even though I was struggling, but there's always people that you didn't know it came from nowhere, whether it's that girl, the Acia girl in school helping me out, or whether it's my teachers, whether it is like another or more person or another immigrant classmate.
Speaker 3:And another thing is that I have a way where people just kind of gravitated towards me And there are people that we didn't speak the same language but we're just like nonverbal speaking and we became friends. And I think finding a village where you can cultivate support system will reduce those anxiety, because there are other people like yourself saying, hey, I don't speak English too And I also speak this language. So with time and I had to like also get out of my comfort zone, introduce myself to them.
Speaker 2:And so that's why I feel like ASL classes in schools are so important. Outside from just the lecture and the teaching part, it's the connection and the nonverbal communication and the safety of being around people that are just as lost and confused as you are. A lot of immigrants that came here that didn't know language. They could relate to your story. I definitely relate to that story of like ESL class being your safe heaven and being excited to go to that class.
Speaker 2:And then I also want to go back a little bit about So a point though I feel like with ESL, oh, yes, because I, yeah, it could be a, it could be a hindrance too, right After you excel, but until then, when you still are struggling with language, i feel like it's a safe heaven. But I want to go back to that point that you were making earlier about the pressure of having to Because you know that you are here for a reason and not being that restriction part. I was thinking about how that's a double-edged sword for you, because it does keep you in line and you are where you are and you're successful and amazing and, like all the accomplishments that you have is because of that pressure that you put on yourself, but then do you feel like, what is the other side of that sword? I guess that's my question.
Speaker 3:Can you clarify that?
Speaker 2:question So what are you missing? What are you missing Looking back, what did you miss out on? What did you feel like? Because there was so much pressure on you from yourself and family, and knowing the fact that there are your siblings and other people that want this opportunity that you are given, and so you put this restriction on yourself. You can't mess around, you can't not have fun, but you have to be struck down, whatever.
Speaker 3:I think I would say what I missed out. I don't think I missed a lot because, having coming from my family who are very open-minded people they were not very restricting They are able to give me the ability to kind of navigate things. The only thing they want is just don't ruin the family name. Those are the pressure right there. If you put that as a title of a book, that's what it is. Don't ruin the family name.
Speaker 2:How would you ruin the family name? What does that look like? I mean, i know, i'm just saying for our viewers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i would have to be direct to be honest with you and honest to anyone that's listening, without trying to sugarcoat It's just don't get pregnant out of a lot. Simple as that Don't get pregnant in high school, middle school or whatever. Don't get pregnant.
Speaker 2:Or don't walk next to a guy and people talk about you being like, oh, she's a wrong guy. So it's not necessarily just don't get pregnant, right. It's about don't be that girl that every Yeah. Don't be that girl that everybody's talking about in a bad connotation right Or is? it just don't get pregnant, don't get pregnant.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, don't get pregnant, because for her family.
Speaker 2:It's for my family, sorry, i have to say, because it's like everything else leads to it, right?
Speaker 3:So if they tell you not to get pregnant, you don't have to do everything else that leads to that, If that makes sense. So it's saying that they'll tell it. my family expressed, at least I have to say one of the person in my family will tell me like this is what would happen. you know what I mean. So try to protect the family name. I don't think they ever said directly that, Like, don't get pregnant. It was just an assumption that's being made. Just keep the family name out of people's mouth. Yeah, that makes sense And the best way. you know how And because I am directly, I would say I'm not rebellious as a personality. So if you tell me something is going to burn you, I'm going to listen to you and believe it. I won't say let me try to figure out how that works. Does it really burns me, Does it?
Speaker 3:Are they sure about that? I don't. I'm like, oh okay, sure, If that's what it is, I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 1:So, speaking on personality, what would you say? Would you say you're an introvert or an extrovert?
Speaker 3:As an adult, I'm an introvert. As a teenager, I was an extrovert Teenager back home or teenager, teenager, here too. What changed? I think growth changed Learning about yourself, learning about your community, learning about your village, when I mean about community's friendship that I created and where I don't believe in having the type of friendship that I had in high school. I don't need to know everybody, i don't need to be popular.
Speaker 1:Okay, i don't need to be So, just understanding. You're growing up you were bubbly, outgoing and stuff like that, and then when you grew up you kind of I don't know had introvert tendencies. You're treated So okay, so let me explain, Make me understand.
Speaker 3:So bubbly sounds like. When you're bubbly, you're like, okay, you're fun. But when you're an introvert you're not fun. But that's not what I mean by that. So let me explain what I mean by that. So in high school I'm really okay with just with people getting to know people. There's no filter, there's no like you are you and just let's have fun. No judgment, that kind of thing, Even today. No judgment, let's just have fun too. But right now I prefer quality over quantity of collective Yes, and because of that I'm much more content and grounded as a person I am today.
Speaker 3:Even then, then I was just trying to discover myself. So if I'm going to be making you know, being friends with everybody, it's me learning who I am with the stages of friendship, or this people or the type of people that I met. And also, what would you know when you're in middle school and high school? You don't know much about yourself. You don't know what personality that you have, because I guess I would say is the personality that you're told to be. You know, the fun person is the bubbly person. That's what you've been told. Right, if you're shy and quiet, there's a negative connotation around that. Yeah, they don't not encourage that, even if you go, if you, even if within families, they will see that as like, yeah, that person oh, look at her, she's so free, like that But if you're quiet, in tune, by yourself and doing the things by yourself, they don't celebrate that as much as they celebrate And very extroverted person.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, that is so crazy, because I felt like in the Western community they celebrate being an extrovert and like being in you know, bubbly and all of that, but then in our community, my experience is that being shy and demure and like quiet and being an introvert and not expressing a lot, like it's very not expressing a lot of opinion, not talking, you know, like that was something that was like oh my God, look at her, she's so such a good girl. Yeah, she's a docile and she's like you know she doesn't. And then this girl, oh, look at her, she's just, i don't know, it's just, i'm not exactly, and I think it's because, yeah, that's more what I've experienced, but it's so interesting how you feel like I'm sure what is your experience? Cause I feel like you're the person I'm talking about. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3:What is your experience? Cause I😅 yok용 Explain So when you're a private means that nobody knows nothing about you by your family, yourself and things like that. But you can still have fun being like the life of the party. Does that make sense? Somebody who talks and make people joke, the person that everybody calls on oh up, shoot, up, shoot. You know what I mean. You get in the room. Everybody's calling your name. There's a difference between that person and that person also being private. In our community we are amplifying privacy parts so much because that's what they want. They don't want people to know anything about each other.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's an experience in Hada region like the extrovertedness kind of celebrated more, would you say, or not really?
Speaker 3:I can speak for the whole Hada region, but I can speak about my family, my family. They're very celebrated when you are very extroverted And so if you are, the introvert is like what's wrong with you? Why are you not going to this event? Why are you not meeting these people? Why do you want to leave? Why don't you leave your room And you're like I don't want to? But explaining being an introvert is a different language itself, So it's not a norm. I would say It's probably like you have to be imbivered, which is the middle part being an extrovert and an introvert as a personality than just being an extrovert.
Speaker 1:So to kind of, I guess, transition into mental health and you being a therapist right now, how did your experiences or thoughts of mental health evolve as you came here and grew up and stuff like that and landed you to where you are right now?
Speaker 3:Mental health is one of the things that I'm generally passionate about serving people And when I've decided that I'm going to become something I had to equip to, how does this become my saddaka jarya in life? Mental health is not where I started when I'm studying. I started with being a nurse, radiologist, ultrasound technician, all this type of medical fields, so where I can take care of people Because, as you know, being able to serve other people, that's you're serving Allah in the midst of it, and then your iman and your heart gets soft in the more challenges and trials, tribulations in other people's life that you see, your heart grows right. You have a little bit of empathy, and the empathy aspect of me is always been there, and so undergrad, even when I was in high school, trying to figure out what I want to study, is always serving people. But what happened with mental health specifically is that I've met people in college freshman year of college, who had went through experiences that you can call will end a person's life. Hearing their stories in details, without me being inquiring, those information people just coming up to me sharing this information, changed a lot for me.
Speaker 3:There was a girl that I met and she was adopted from India, by a white couple, white family from St Cloud And she was living St Cloud, all white community, no people of color. She looks like me as far as Indian right Dark skin, beautiful girl And raising that household. This is a disclaimer. She was assaulted And her assault kind of designed that her life basically that trauma experience kind of made what her life was. And not only that. The family did not believe that the assault happened by one of the brother and her adopted brother. And she would just tell me all these stories, this devastating story. And she tells me that one thing I saw her arm was all the way to here. It's like a deep cut And that's my first exposure to cuts. I've never seen cut before. That I've heard about it.
Speaker 2:I mean like cutting right, Yeah, self-harming, Self-harming okay.
Speaker 3:I've heard about self-harm, but usually the self-harm that I hear is on the thighs, not the hand, and so I saw that and I was like, hey, what is that? She's like? oh yeah, this is just me cutting when I'm really depressed. And I was like, what is depression? Right, yeah, she tells me the story and that story, and then me being inquisitive and being curious, like, okay, what is depression? Anxiety? She's telling me about this abusive relationship that she's currently in And I'm hearing all of this stuff.
Speaker 3:And then she told me that she tried to unalive herself last week all in the same window of time And for some people that type of story would like be so too much and burdening and scary For me. I'm just sitting here listening to her and like it's going to be okay. You know, i'm glad that you're seeing a therapist. Do you also have a doctor which I didn't know? that's where you call a psychiatrist, like do you also have a medication doctor who gives you medications? She's like yeah, i have them, but now the states are telling me that I have to stay in the hospital for this. Many years I used to go to the psych unit and just visit her there too to make sure that she's okay. One time she was admitted for six months. So basically those type of exposure stories And then hearing other people.
Speaker 1:Was that one specific story like a turning point for you?
Speaker 3:I would say her. And then there was another girl who is in this family abuse relationship that she's in. She was telling me about that and she said the habit. I think you'll be a great therapist, because I leave your conversation feeling like I've never been feeling heard. I don't think you are overly inquiring and judging anything, you just want to just there presently listening.
Speaker 3:And I was like, oh, therapist, what is that? And so I took psychology class and learned a little bit of psychology. And then I was like maybe I should just do a social worker. And then I was like, well, that's not, but I want to be a therapist because I feel like this is my calling. I want to do this, this. I want to talk to people, i want to help people. And also like there are incident from back home that I've noticed where people are having depressive symptoms that we talked about in a previous day in this episode, one of the episodes where people back home having mental health breakdowns and there's people becoming crazy or marata they call it back home, noticing all of this. Why are people suffering like this? So my own curiosity kind of got into that. And then an undergrad after so many of this type of selective experiences. I was like, okay, i used to do psychology and then psychology became the things And that's how I became a therapist.
Speaker 1:You started to put like language around stuff that you were experiencing and all these memories and stuff like that. You're like starting to identify and name them actually.
Speaker 3:That's cool. Yes, the suffering that people have and that people don't talk about. It's what made me realize that is there a way that you can help people. I've never been like, oh, i'm related to their story. No, i really can't relate to their story, because some of the trauma experiences that people have, and also is that thinking of trauma, did not make me. I wasn't afraid of hearing trauma stories. You know what I mean. I didn't find it as like this is too much, this is burdensome. It's more like that's hard, that's challenging. What can I do to help this person? So that's how it started for me.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is powerful. Like you said, the idea that most people, when they are hearing these conversations and their friends do have people that they know have these deep, scary conversations with them, like, hey, i'm thinking about doing this to myself, or I'm doing this, or this happened to me. I think most people because they don't want to do damage to the other person by giving false, wrong advice or something like that, or sometimes the taboo of it all deters them even from like being friends with that person. They're like, oh, this person has too much baggage or too much drama and I just don't want to associate with that. Or they just retreat.
Speaker 2:But the fact that you are more open and you are welcoming to the information that you are getting and you are willing to be there and present, that does sure that would have been like oh, that's interesting. This is interesting to me. You know what I mean. I understand why you would feel that way. So I guess my next question to follow that up would be what is one thing you feel like people misunderstand about you as a person? like the habit and you as the habit of the therapist.
Speaker 3:I thought about that question, but I really don't know. people misunderstand about me. Maybe I'm overly nice, are you not nice?
Speaker 2:Have you been bullying us?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I mean I am nice, but I don't like the word nice because nice has an attachment of transition. Like I'm going to be nice to you because I'm going to get something out from you. I'm kind. I intentionally am kind. You know what I mean. I make that decision based on like I'm a kind person, because I want to be a kind person, But I don't know what people misunderstand. I would like to ask what you guys misunderstand about me, but like it's more like I don't know what people misunderstand about me.
Speaker 2:I think people might think you're serious like all the time.
Speaker 3:They think I'm stuck up.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, are you?
Speaker 3:No, i've heard that, i've heard that, like people would think I'm serious, i'm a very serious person, and then I'm stuck up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not that you are, but I think most people you know what I think it was in my second at 2020, last 2022. I one of the shakes was talking about people that are serious and how that is. That comes from a space of being comfortable. Like I felt like it was a shot at me, but it's okay. But I think it's because you're so comfortable in yourself now and you're so safe and like you are grounded, right, composed and grounded. You don't have to cheese all the time and like show your teeth all the time to be attracting people. I think you're, or I just attract people, so you're just serious.
Speaker 2:But I get the proved thing too. Not that you are proved, but people associate seriousness with being proved and that's a projection of their own insecurities, right? So I know that you were talking about how, when you got here to the United States, your brother did most of the raising of you. How would you describe your brother? How was your relationship with your older brother? So earlier you were talking about your brother and how he raised you. When you guys came to the United States. How was that like, being raised by an older brother here in America and how did it influence you?
Speaker 3:My brother. I would say he was much more open-minded. He was a friend to me more than a father, but he did play that father role who can, over you know, protect me and provide for me and guide me if I had any questions, but he's answering those questions. that might be tough and that might be scary. He was also much more like he's not a typical patriarchy man where he was like he would be there for me when I'm having emotional stuff, like if I'm frustrated about something. he would listen to me calmly. it made me think that it's going to be okay. He made me feel safe.
Speaker 3:I would say my first experience of like being raised by him is like if I ever needed something or needed anyone I know who to call. But even though I looked at him as a father role type but he never made me feel like he was my father, he was just became a protective older brother when it comes to emotional, financial, physically, all aspect of it, and I'm very grateful to him for that experience, for being that one salad, grounded person that I can constantly count on on that stage of my life, and I think that's the thing is like if anyone ever had that type of role models in their life. I would say it makes a difference And he did make those difference for me in those stages of my life.
Speaker 2:You know, the great part of having a strong male figure in a female, in a women's life, is that you could model the kind of person you would want to be with marry to, using that person as an example that person's strength, that person's flaws Do you think that he was that person for you? like that you could model who you would want to be married to when you were younger. Like that way you're like I want someone that makes me feel safe, like my brother did, or like that makes me feel loved And that could listen to me when I was. I know I'm answering the questions for you, but was that like your experience?
Speaker 3:I would say yes because you want somebody who's grounded, somebody that you don't have to question their intention towards you And you want somebody who's consistent about their emotional expression. They made a promise to you. Their promise is kept. You want somebody you you feel emotionally safe with, where your words are not going to be miscontrudes or they trust you automatically. You know, without questioning what you're saying, what your intention is. You want somebody who's open minded and you've evolved as a person and they have to be open to that And not saying you're going out of, be curious about what's going on with her.
Speaker 3:I think those types of traits that he had would make any man to be a good husband. Being a provider, you know, being the one that's financially, emotionally, being provided. That should be the role of the man in the house. I admire him And because of how hard he worked to as a person, he would work so many hours to provide for me and himself. You want to also impress him in so many aspects of it because he didn't have to do all those things. I know a lot of people in those stages of my life who had siblings like I did. Those brothers like left them and they're gone and doing their own thing, but this person decided to take the role on seriously and was consistent for that until I was able to take care of myself and gave me that. So, yeah, i would definitely say with that attributes personality types.
Speaker 2:Was your brother a lot like your dad? How were they similar and different?
Speaker 3:They're definitely different. I think my brother have more of my mom's personality Tell us about your parents.
Speaker 2:How are they, what would their personality like and how are they?
Speaker 3:So my dad is a very introverted person. He's quiet, he like to keep it to himself, but he like presenting very well, he likes serving the communities. My mom is she's an African man mom, If you know what that means.
Speaker 3:She's a go-getter, she's very powerful. She's very strong, she's entrepreneur, she's fearless, she's courageous, she's not afraid of taking a risk. I wish I had that personality. And she's funny and she loves automo songs. My mom is very incredible person. I think both of my parents. They have an amazing personality to create all of me and my siblings.
Speaker 1:To kind of go in a different direction. I guess I'd really like to know about a time when you made a difficult decision, and how did you handle that? I feel like I'm in an interview.
Speaker 2:Like a job interview? Yeah, in general, how do you handle difficult decisions?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i think difficult decision that I made was moving out in COVID Because it wasn't easy And it took a lot of me mentally to decide to live separately from the family. Because why is difficult? Let me explain why In our culture is that a woman leave her house once she gets married. She doesn't go live by herself And it's not well accepted Living alone And that's not the decision that I wanted to make. But Allah has made it that way And because of COVID it was like everybody's living together. The house is smaller And I was working from home a lot And I couldn't see privately my client And you need to have a private seclusion area. There's no place to go to because everything's shut down. And when I made that decision to move out it was miscontruded as like me cutting my family off kind of things. It wasn't for that, it was more like let me go live by myself and see how things could be. But it was also I had to think about it so much before coming to that decision And I had to like have those debate in my head before I can present it to the people and see who will be supportive of me making this decision At the end of the day.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, when you're making a difficult decision that might be a good thing for you, it won't be good for everybody else, in the sense that it sounded it came out as rejection. For people It's like why are you rejecting us? I'm not rejecting you, i'm just moving five minutes away from your house, so that way at least we're much more closer. And I think that became for those two reasons culturally, it wasn't family-wise, it wasn't normal. And third is for me to make that decision. It was like wow, okay, this is the first time I'm actually doing it. But then there's also sounding like being selfish and being there was a guilt there. I kind of was preparing for all of these statements. Are they going to see it as rejection? Are they going to feel that I'm making a selfish decision? Are they going to see it as if they don't care? I don't care about them. It is going to be the titles as like oh, single girl living by herself kind of thing too, where it's normal for many people.
Speaker 1:But I'm like and then, when the decision was made, What do you think about your decision now, having been about a year, now a year and a half, it's been three years.
Speaker 2:It's been three years in COVID.
Speaker 3:Wow, i think I should have took more chances on myself. That's what I think. I think I should trust myself to take more chances on myself. Because now you're thriving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, snap, snap, snap, because that's what it is, because I feel like that's an anxiety point and like a fear point for a lot of sisters. It's like, okay, i want to take this step and people want to move out for a wide variety of reasons. So what would you say now, having gone through that experience being a single sister living on your own and what would be your advice to somebody who's contemplating about this or thinking about it?
Speaker 3:What would you say to her?
Speaker 3:That's such an amazing question and I'm so glad you asked because I really want to tell a lot of girls this One please put a love first in that decision Makes the heart, make the eyes ask Allah in your corner and you're doing it for him and the action that you're taking is to please Allah, because people are never going to be satisfied with you, never, ever. Secondly, if you have support system within your family, one ally person, someone that you can confide in, whether it's your siblings, pick one siblings and make sure that that person is your support system and making those decisions. And once you have those two, you can do anything, because everything else is like. if Allah is your intention, like you're not going to do anything, that's going to be. Allah's going to be displeased to right. If you have your sister, who's going to be in your corner, your aunt, whoever that may be for you, that person is going to be fighting for you with your family to make them understand this is the right decision for her, whether they like it or not.
Speaker 1:And for that first point, you yourself know as a person, right, nobody can know that for you.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that's true.
Speaker 1:What if you're doing it truly, for the right reasons?
Speaker 3:Yes, and then also, what is the worst thing is going to happen. She may not like it, but just know that she should have a house to come back to too. That should not be the end of the road for all relationship. And if somebody make those decisions, don't react, listen, sitting with your own discomfort and then eventually say you know what, if this is what's going to make you happy, go ahead and do it, but know that there's always space for you in this house. You know what that does to that person. It's powerful. Yes, it gives them the courage to come to you. For many things, you know. You just open. I love you, and it doesn't matter where you go Your house, your bed still here, whenever you decide that apartment is not a place for you, come back That open door policy.
Speaker 2:one of my favorite poets, maya Angelil. Her mom used to raise her kid for her and she used to babysit for her. And one time she decided that she wanted to move out of her mom's house and live by her own. And her mom told her once you step out of the store, you've been raised, do right, know that whenever life kicks you on your butt, don't feel any shame to come back home. The door is always open for you whenever you want to. And that is so liberating.
Speaker 2:And she talks about how love is liberated. It doesn't confine you, it doesn't restrict you, it doesn't fill you with fear and guilt. It liberates you. But then, whenever life does kick you in the butt, to fly back home and rest I totally understand what you mean when you give that advice of like families should be able to. Okay, you want your kid to grow, you want them to be able to evolve. Have that open door policy. Don't guilt them to staying. You know and imagine now you're thriving and it's been three years. But if you left at the time that you felt ready, or at the five years ago, whenever five years how far you would have gone or how many different experiences or you would have had, and I mean, we don't live in what is right, but it's not courage, but it's about, like them, releasing you. So that's very interesting. So I guess I would follow that with what is the one time that you felt like you were aside from this, that it was like the most fearful you were.
Speaker 3:I think when you live by yourself, you also learn a lot about yourself, about your own decision making, your own future planning or your needs. And I think in the past three years, I would say, the concept of getting married did not paralyze me as much as it did prior to that, because it used to be oh my God, this is what I'm supposed to do. It kind of my own self-worth was attached to that And that attachment of getting married because that's what you're supposed to do. You graduate it, you have this successful career, you have this, you have that. It's time for you to get married.
Speaker 3:And when I let myself free from that it wasn't an easy process but I realized I sat down in the midst of talking to a therapist and trying to understand. I have been wanting this for most of my life and this process not happening as it's supposed to happen. I'm feeling like I'm not worthy of what the societal perception of success supposed to be, And I used to make daht to Allah. I said, ya Allah, if this is meant for me and this is the right that you have written for me, make it happen. But you know, now, going back to me, reflecting over the weekend, i realized that Allah's doing all of this for a reason. And even then, in the midst of it, i knew that there was a reason. I knew that nothing happens without Allah's permission. Allah's wisdom is beyond my understanding And his wisdom is deeper than what society and families, things that they tell you talk of they do the things that you need to do Go meet people, do that, do that. If Allah wanted to, he can make anything possible, the same way that he created in seven days.
Speaker 3:So I released it. I released myself from the choking hold of like, well, i'm not doing this, i'm not doing the things that people were told me to supposed to do. So I let it go to attachment. I started to visualize, even though my struggles and difficulties, smaller than what Prophet Musa's mom went through, and I'm like what was her heart? Allah tightened her heart when she put her baby inside the water in the river, like, give me that strength. And if this doesn't happen, guess what? It was his plan. And I think letting go and having that revelation of that experiences is. I would say it was hard to do, but it was something that I needed to do so I can do the things that I needed to do in my life.
Speaker 2:Just the idea of that right, that idea of releasing something that you wanted for a very long time. I think a lot of us, in one form or another, experienced that. Having either like, if it's like success with school, wanting to be such a such, you know, having such a such degree, and blah, blah, blah, or wanting to get married, or wanting to have kids, you feel like you as a woman, some women feel like their woman heart is attached to having kids. They would be married and have this amazing marriage and then they're not able to have kids. They hold on to it and they try and they kill themselves and they, you know, and the minute that they release that guilt, you know, and they explore other opportunities, other possibilities, you know, life just becomes a little bit more richer And so, like different ways.
Speaker 2:So it's like with marriage, with couriers, with family, even family guilt, right, like there's some people that have toxic families that they need to release Absolutely. So I guess that would go, and if you, you know, don't want to talk about it, that's fine too. But since you brought it up, how was that experience for you? Like after college, after you got your undergrad and stuff like that, and now they're like okay, you did everything that we asked you to do, you got your degree and now where's the man? Where's the man? You just said that it was very hard to let it go, but at that time, how was that for you? How did you navigate that terrain, and what kind of advice would you give our sisters that are listening?
Speaker 3:I think before now it was a lot harder to be honest with you. I would question this is me being a little bit transparent about this but you will question who. you are your own self worth. Why question? Why does it not happen? Why are not I'm not going beyond of what other people? and then you're like how is it so easy for other people? Look at this person. just met the person.
Speaker 3:within 90 days They're getting married or doing their Nika. And then you internalize those feelings. You question yourself, you feel it's your fault, the same as the woman who is not able to conceive. She has to. eventually she will start questioning herself, like maybe it's my fault, maybe it's me, maybe I'm doing something wrong. So those things come up and a lot of people don't understand. when they ask you, like what are you not doing? You're not doing this, trust me.
Speaker 3:the things that you would think of, like done all of things that you would think of, whether it is asked an auntie at the Masjid approaching you to be your mashmaker. you do that. You tell people you are ready to get married. You think maybe you and this person can kind of overcome a couple of things. but you're like okay, you have some things that you need to work on, and there are some things that I need to work on. I think we could get married. I can see as that, but then the other person is never going to feel the same way about you. that how you feel about that.
Speaker 2:Or you don't feel the same way about that.
Speaker 3:And sometimes it's also me asking myself now it's like, do you actually like that person or just wanted to get married?
Speaker 2:There is a lot of people that would have settled, and that do settle for the wrong person, just because of that pressure of wanting to get married?
Speaker 3:Yes, And I think Allah has protected me. I always believe in istaghara. I always ask Allah in every single experience. I made my du'as I would have istaghara, when I say, okay, I think this person would work, Let me bring a line to this Right. And so that has been. But my advice would be probably is like it's not in your hand, but you can do what you can, The best of your ability your own ability, not other people's. Your ability Tell people that you're looking to get married.
Speaker 1:That's one.
Speaker 3:If you feel like you want to get into somebody, to be your matchmony person, talk to someone who can kind of connect you to people. I would not recommend online, because online is the risk that you have to take, but marriage is a risk. So take that risk if you wanted to, if you're able to, but be mindful that this process is going to play a lot on your self-esteem, and if you are not fully in the space and your self-esteem is already shaky, i would have to tell you to take a step back and work on that first, because then you're going to have to identify your self-worth and based on what that person think of you.
Speaker 1:I think that's the most important part Do all of your inner work first, and then start the process.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:Would you recommend that, also separating your self-worth from this concept of marriage or having kids or whatever the case is, or success, just like I am worthy regardless of all of those things, i am enough regardless of all of those things, and I think most people that are struggling in education, success, marriage, kids we become less and we become more insecure and we blame ourselves because it's so intertwined in our DNA that that's like this is a part of me. I have to do this and if I don't then I'm incomplete. So if we I mean, i'm just speaking in general but would you agree, if you separate your self-worth and from that thing, that becomes an easier way of looking at it objectively.
Speaker 3:So there are three things about that.
Speaker 3:One marriage is not going to fulfill you or children. Secondly, if you are in this difficult situation in your life and you think marriage is the exit the exit out of that situation, that's not going to be helping you either. Third, like I've said earlier, you have to realize that define what your success in life is. You have to redefine that because recently I was talking to a person and they asked me that question. I said success is just not being in a survival mode, constantly working, constantly chasing something, constantly being something that I'm not even enjoying what I already built. Success is being able to enjoy the process of everything that I do. And I don't find success to be a marriage now, Now. Now I don't find marriage is a success. I don't find children to be a success. Those are the blessings that Allah gives you and you can take it away anytime he wants. If I attach my success to that, it means that I made those happen. Right, Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. That's so, so powerful.
Speaker 1:Right, and so those are not my success, because it's not in your hands for it to be your success.
Speaker 2:And I think I think that's why I had a very hard time for a very long time when people used to tell me like oh, you're married and you have kids and you should be proud of yourself and you should be successful. You should feel successful, and I'm not discouraging that right And I'm not saying that's not a good thing.
Speaker 2:I always used to say, like I didn't do shit to gain, that It's just the gift of Allah, it's the mercy of Allah And it's my time at that time for me to get those things. So how you are in those relationships obviously is up to you and that's something you should be proud of. So I understand what you're saying, like it's a lust gift. It's not something that you did, and I feel like it's weird to me when people are like oh, my God.
Speaker 2:I'm just like dude, it's not, it could just get gone. like that, you have a happy marriage. You would walk out of the house and you might not be happy and you might fall, fall apart. So identifying that is very important. to be like this is a loss of gift. Allah's mercy, this is a lot tested for me. Allah's this for me, instead of I did that. It's just such a weird thing to you know, when you put it in that perspective, in that sentence. just lighten up the wood a little bit so that, because we're going to be, i want to say one thing about.
Speaker 3:that is how we can move on. I also would say that I would make a better wife and better mother today than I would be five years ago. Yep, i simple as that, because I know my husband is not going to fulfill me. I know my children are not going to fulfill me.
Speaker 1:And you're coming together as two whole people.
Speaker 2:Two whole people, not broken people, that are trying to make one whole. I love that. Can you say that one more time I would make a better? like that timing of Allah, like it's just that is so true because you are more grown, you mentally, emotionally, you are more experienced, your temperament is different. It's just amazing. I mean, imagine how many people expect the other person to complete them.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of going off of that. Some wrap up questions. Can you share a time where you felt you were truly content and fulfilled?
Speaker 3:Right now, right now, right now, this moment of my life, i could say I am truly, indusly content. Okay, i'm so, so grateful to Allah It was fun to talk about that. From everything I'm right now.
Speaker 2:It's because we're in the room.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Mashallah, do you ever take time to kind of realize where you've been, all the growth that's happened, all of the things that happened in your life to bring you to this moment?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i journal, i write and I look back yesterday, like I was telling you guys earlier, i remember writing something last year around the same date, the same time, and I looked at that experience and, within one year, what Allah has put me through and brought me to where I am today. The only thing you can describe it is Allah, but mashallah. So I do And I think, like I said, i'm so grateful to Allah.
Speaker 2:If you had to give advice to your 21-year-old self, what would be the three things like, for example, friendship-wise, relationship-wise and family-wise? What would you give advice about those three things?
Speaker 3:So, friendship, i would say there's going to be different stages of friendship in your early 20s, so it has nothing to do with you. If friendships end, let them go And when you do end it, leave it in a good note. And people come for a season and a reason, and so take those seasons and a reason and experience it and then let it be. Secondly, don't be afraid to take a chance on yourself. Take a chance. What do you want to do? What do you want to be? Where do you want to travel? to Travel if you are financially capable. Go see the world. You will discover yourself. I promise you. You discover yourself and you discover Allah in the midst of it, because his beauty is all over the world.
Speaker 3:And third, when it comes to relationship is also take a chance. Know that it doesn't matter who comes in your space. They are not going to fulfill you. Try to know is this the right fit for me? You know the question around what do you bring to the table? You are a whole personality that Allah has created you. Your parents has created you, environment has made you. Those are the table. The only part of the table that you need to work on is the legs off the table. So figure out whatever those legs are which mean you're in security. The areas that you need to improve.
Speaker 2:So you're saying you are the table, you are the table.
Speaker 3:Got it, but there is a leg of the table that needs to be fixed. Make it tighter to make the table stand. So those things are the things that you have to work on yourself. That can be trust, that can be shame, that can be guilt, that can be value and self-worth. Figure those things out, work on it, don't be afraid to go inward within yourself And don't be afraid to be alone in your 20s. Please, don't be afraid to be alone. I promise you it sucks, but it's good work. No, i think you guys did a great job.
Speaker 1:What's one final thought that you want to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 2:and that we can wrap up. I want to ask about our podcast. What do you want your contribution and what our audience should take away from you?
Speaker 3:I want our audience to feel like there is a space for them to be listened and somebody was validating them, whether it's through the cyber world or far away voice that they have been met or heard. I want our audience to feel like they have space and they're not going through whatever challenge that they're dealing with by themselves. Us, as your host, are the people that are speaking for you, even though you're not able to right now.
Speaker 1:And then, just to wrap it up, what is one final thought that you want to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 3:Be brave. Take a chance on yourself, on yourself. you matter, wallahi. You matter, you're important, you're loved. And I don't know you, but I'm proud of you, and I'm proud of you in every stages that you're taking to try to evolve yourself. So take a chance on yourself, because that's the only person who's going to leave this earth with is you So don't be afraid, i'm proud of you too.
Speaker 1:Join the conversation in the comments section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers, and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah SWT accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.