Love and Family

What if we told you that the story of two couples with different backgrounds could provide valuable lessons on love and relationships? Join us for a captivating conversation as we explore the profound impact of culture, family, and upbringing on our views of love, partners, and relationships. We uncover the importance of focusing on a potential partner's goals and mindset, rather than their current wealth, and we discuss how to navigate the complexities of cultural and religious identities.

In our quest to understand the balance in relationships, we delve into the struggles couples face while navigating gender roles in marriage, and how external factors such as cultural norms and insecurities can cause friction. We emphasize the value of honest communication and understanding, sharing examples of couples who have managed to create a harmonious partnership despite various challenges. 

Lastly, we chat about the importance of introspection and self-awareness when choosing a partner, and how to ensure that our relationships are based on our own needs and choices, rather than the expectations of others. If you're looking to gain insights and wisdom on relationships, culture, and self-discovery, this episode is for you!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

As-salamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education.

Speaker 2: 0:15

The cultures that we belong to, the religion that we belong to, the families that we have, the friends that we have, how those things affect and impact and influence our view of love, our view of partners, our view of the journey. This episode we're going to be talking about how culture and family affect how you view life and how you view romantic encounters and relationships and what to look for in a person. We'll start off with a story that I actually have about people that I know in my life. I knew these couple, two sets of couples The first set and they taught me a lot. They grew up in the same culture, in an automobile culture, and they were both academic focused and they used to go to school.

Speaker 2: 1:03

But at some point before they got married, the girl and their relationship started like excelling and her trajectory started speeding up faster than the guy. So by the time that they got married the girl was financially stable, she had her own house and she had graduated. The guy was still going to school but he was working minimum wage job. He was still basically a college student, while she was basically adulting up. First five years of their marriage she was earning more and she was like established in her life, in her career life.

Speaker 2: 1:40

That was something I grew up watching. I could say it really truly impacted how I view things as well, and then also later on, you know, obviously because he was focused, he was still going to school and he was still improving himself. He did catch up, but now you could say that they're equals. So that was people that were very prominent in my life, that I knew from you know far and I could see them and I could see every little cranny and like. So it was very interesting to see the not so typical relationship where the girl is the one that's going to school and like the guy is the one that's out earning her and like basically putting her through school. Not seeing that and seeing the opposite of that, it really is like very impactful, i feel like.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Why do you think the story specifically stood out and what has it taught you?

Speaker 2: 2:30

It stood out for many reasons for me, because the first thing is that I learned what to look for and what not to look for. For example, in our community we are told to like, oh, the guy has to be successful, the guy has to have his own stuff going on before you guys get married, and so on and so forth. And seeing that relationship and made me realize that it's not where the guy is that matters, is where he wants to go and where he has plans to go, where he has the goal to go, what his mindset is. So for me, it taught me, like I don't care how much money you have, i don't care what's in your pocket right now, i don't care what kind of family you come from, what's in your mind, what's your goal, what's your destination. You know, that was something that was very clear to me, because I knew how they were able to prosper And it's not rosy Everything because obviously the culture it was like in their ear, right, like either talking to him like, oh, she's probably acting like this because she's out earning it Yeah, she out earns you or oh, she said this to you.

Speaker 2: 3:35

How dare she? She must think that she's the man of the house right, so they put guests and that thing, or they would tell her oh, how dare he say that to you. You are the one that you know whatever Right Exactly. So if they listened to that it would be very destructive. But Alhamdulillah, they didn't listen to all of that. They were just very focused on what they wanted to do and what their goals were, and they knew what their relationship was. So it was very educational for me to know, like, okay, what you need is someone that is willing to go the distance with you. So that was something that I learned from that interaction.

Speaker 1: 4:11

I feel like that's really important because we grew up in our families and our culture and we always get to this idea of culture right. So when defining culture, a lot of people say it's basically certain things that a group of people share, certain values which affect your identity and how you identify yourself and how you relate to these type of people in the community and people in our culture. So when you say that because you had those experiences, that's what you look for when you're trying to get married, so I think that's very important to point out.

Speaker 2: 4:45

Definitely And I think, specifically like for me. I had an encounter where this person was like flashing off money and like showing off the fancy car and stuff like that, and I really didn't care. I was like, cool, that's yours. I could do that too if I wanted to. Like, inshallah, give me some time, give me some time, i could do that too. But that's also. It gives you space in your mind to look for other things that are important, if you're not so distracted by the shiny things that the person can bring for you. I think most of the time, our families sometimes focus on what did he graduate with? or whatever, whatever, and they don't pay attention to even when they're trying to give their girl away. The questions that they ask is about which is fair. I'm not discouraging that right, it's about his financial standards and status than what his goals are. So like if a broke guy comes to pick up their daughter and they get discouraged and most of the time they don't allow that guy.

Speaker 1: 5:48

You know what I mean. Like that also comes from a place of wanting to protect her and wanting to make sure that she's secure and that she is taken care of too. Yeah, financial stand.

Speaker 2: 6:00

They are protecting her right. They're protecting her from living in a hard life. But what if this guy that is broke right now has a million dollar idea, that he has a plan and he has a map to get there And he has the Iman and he has the temperament and all of that thing? that's like good for you. but versus this guy that has the money right now But he doesn't know how to spend it, he doesn't know how to save it, he has a bad temperament. you know what I mean. And he likes looks good on paper, but for the future of their daughter she's not safe there either. That's true.

Speaker 3: 6:34

So would you say that the gender role for you to kind of outside of cultural perspective that has been pre-existent? What else did they do that in that stories that you told? that made you realize, ok, i like that part one. And what else did you see, as you continue to like have the evolution of this relationship?

Speaker 2: 6:54

And I think another thing that I learned watching that was if you are comfortable in your masculinity or femininity. Whatever the other person does doesn't affect you. Meaning if you are comfortable in your masculinity and you know exactly what your goal is and who you are and where you're going, if you're down and out for like six months and you're like, ok, you know, i'm not where I need to be right now, it doesn't make you feel like, oh, now she's the man of the house, even though that's what society will tell you. They will make you feel bad. Your family will make you feel bad, the community will make you feel bad, but in your head you know who you are. You're not going to be defeated by being at home or whatever the case is.

Speaker 2: 7:40

And by femininity I mean like these women. Alhamdulillah, for some reason, like all my life, i've been surrounded by alpha women. They were my mom. She was an assistant engineer, and I don't say that in a light way, i say it like she was able to go to work and be the boss at work and then come home and be completely at ease being of service to my dad. Does that make sense? It didn't make her less of a person. It didn't make her like her obedience Didn't make her not have worth.

Speaker 2: 8:12

She was very much what you would consider to be Maybe I'm talking through a rose-colored glasses and it's okay But what you would consider like Allah has prescribed the wife to be, like She was the person that would take care of my dad and she was the you know Homemaker, and she may be you know all of those things. She was the mother, all of these things, but at the same time, when she goes to work, she's on. It was just For. It was just transformed into whatever Situations she was that I was talking about earlier. In that situation, they're alpha women, but at the same time, when they were around their husbands, They could bring it down and be the wife. There were moments, of course, there's shade that you can walk into that house and tell okay, who's the head of the house? you could tell and I think it's regardless of what, where they work financially. So that's really cool to think about.

Speaker 1: 9:05

I think it takes a lot of Interest faction and a lot of space for both of them to be able to give each other that space and be like, okay, almost have an unspoken agreement to you're the man, i'm the woman, you know, let's get this done. You avoid a lot of like headbutting and stuff like that, because egos will flare up and egos will get In the way. Yeah, especially when you're pushing back on what society and what culture tells you, and especially you know, coming from Ethiopia, because this happens, happening in Ethiopia right You know them getting married and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 9:38

What are some things that I guess people around them have pushed back on and kind of said to them.

Speaker 2: 9:46

It's so toxic man, but I know for a fact that they had More on. it's funny because more on Her, his side, i don't know more on his side or her side. They would get comments like I said, for example Oh, did she's saying this and this because this is not your house? Right, because technically, like, she bought the house before thing, whatever, so all she's saying doesn't this because it's not your house? Oh, or she's acting this way because you're, you know, oh. or the other way around, where it's like Oh, how could you let him?

Speaker 2: 10:21

So people would instigate Oh yeah, oh yeah, and also sometimes even within themselves, because in security is real cultural influence and the way you grow up is very real and I've seen it diminish Over time. But I would remember times where it was. You could tell it was just all about ego. You could tell this person wasn't letting this thing go because their ego is telling them like, oh, there would be a fight about coffee, and then it would always all of this at a turn into oh, you're saying this because I am Making less money than you. Yeah, whatever the case is.

Speaker 2: 10:57

So you think it's just so funny how to learn like, okay, you have to make sure, whenever you, what is, what is? what is the things that I grew up learning, what are the things that I saw, what are the things that I was told by either action or by words were important. And then, specifically, i was the same same woman told me a story about a person that was Cording her before she met her husband, and this person was a doctor and he was all these things and on paper very good, right, but then very like, critical and like very controlling, controlling and very critical and very demeaning and All of these things. And now, when she looks back in hindsight, she's like I wouldn't be the half the person I was if I was married to that person versus the person that I'm married to. You know, and The progress is both ways. Her husband was able to give her the space to be the Conqueror that she became and she was able to give him the space and to hold the fort down So that he could go and conquer the things that he was able to do and he wanted to do.

Speaker 2: 12:01

And now they're like doing epic things And they're at, but people, because they were able to balance each other out there, like, okay, i can sit it down, sit out for now, i let you do your thing and then top me in and I'll go in. And you know, i mean and it was beautiful, beautiful to watch and Alhamdulillah I tried to model that in my life to being able to be like, okay, if my husband needs me to sit out from my career, from my trajectory, so that he could do something, that he has this clear idea of where to go, i should be more than happy. And to be able to do so and, insha'allah, hopefully he's also able to, i can tap him like you can tap out, and then I could go do the things that I'm Interested in. I think that's really, really important, and I feel like most of the time in our culture, instead of thinking as we and as a unit, when you become married, the community tries to make you Compete against each other and I think it's not healthy.

Speaker 1: 12:55

I think that a lot of that comes from, like, this idea of trying to pigeonhole You as a woman or you as a man into what they view as a wife is supposed to do or husband is supposed to do, and so like, say, your husband decides to stay home and with the kids for like a couple months while you finish your degree Or while you take on a full-time job. That is just taboo because it pushes back against their idea Of the cultural norms of a guy being out there and working and, you know, getting that money. And so I feel like, as a couple and you have to be really intentional, you have to have really vulnerable and deep conversations about what you yourself want as a unit And because you know people are gonna say things or people are gonna try to poke at your union. Regardless, you already know that that's a given. Unfortunately, it's not a place where we lift up couples that are working like to just see the house on fire, Yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:53

I talked about it how they should write it out, but I wanted to ask you both, because you both are married, how long does it take or what is the process of maybe other examples of marriage that you've seen where a couple were Working? because all the things that you're saying about the story that you're telling, bonnie, it takes time for the couples to come to a place where they both can see eye to eye on their gender role, whatever the role that may be is in their relationship, without the outside external community not getting into it. But talk about that more like the process, the conversation that you may have to have with your husband Or, you know, have with yourself, like, okay, how do I tackle this type of patriarchy, cultural norms, that needs to be woman needs to do this and man needs to do that, versus We have to figure out our own Frame sets of what we want, not what, all this external reason being. When did you guys realize to have those conversation In getting to know your person or even like the examples that you saw?

Speaker 1: 14:58

Before I started talking to my husband, i had a list of 40 things that I was looking for. These were traits, these were like physical Appearances and stuff like that. But when me and my husband were talking and I decided that this is the person that I wanted to marry, i really had to tune out a lot of people's opinions and tune out a lot of people's Advice, especially. I feel like when you are at the stage of getting married, you've decided on this person. For some reason, there's always chatter and there's always little comments here and there or whatever. So I always have a mental chat with myself where I'm like, okay, this does it matter, you need to tune this A, b and C out, because what that does is just it creates doubt, and it creates It almost gives you like cold feet you know, and so you have to be able to do that and as I'm at the scribe old age of 30, i Feel so good to not care.

Speaker 1: 16:00

Well, i like it because when you are just doing you, you have so many things that like, so many anxiety, so much stress that just falls off Alhamdulillah right, alhamdulillah.

Speaker 2: 16:13

I kind of didn't tell anybody at all that I was talking to my husband. But before I met my husband, actually when I was in middle school, maybe even elementary school, i always had a list, like I always say, like my idea of success always included husband and family and Career and all of those things. Since that, the trajectory might have been different in my career, but I've always been like, okay, this is what I wanted to do, like I always wanted so. Even with my husband I had a list. You know, like I'm like he has to be this, he has to be Muslim, he has to be Oramu.

Speaker 2: 16:46

I used to always say that I wanted him to be more Connected and more religious than I ever was, because I felt like if he fears Allah and if Allah is so important to him, his relationship with God is so important to him, and he's honestly, genuinely in that relationship, then he could not do me wrong. You know what I mean Because he, that relationship is real for him. It's not ambiguous, it's not something that he goes to when he's down. Now It's, it's real. So he cannot do me wrong. And I also wanted a teacher. That's part of being the man of the house is teaching you're and being Responsible for the knowledge of your family. So I wanted him to be able to be my teacher in my guide in Islam. So that was very important to me before I met him or anything.

Speaker 2: 17:35

But when I did, i didn't talk to anybody. I think that was the best thing I could have ever done. I didn't tell anybody. I didn't talk to anybody because that was the biggest secret I ever kept. I have a big mouth y'all About myself, other people's, i'm the best secret keeper because I forget, but my shit is always out. Everybody knows about it. So that was the biggest, the best thing I could have done.

Speaker 1: 17:58

So let me ask a question then. I know we both said that we made a list, and stuff like that, of the things on your list. What was more of an influence of those things that landed on your list?

Speaker 3: 18:09

Oh, I actually want to know. It's a lot of the things that are in your list. Does your husband have it? The?

Speaker 2: 18:14

influence. I feel like my top 10. Alhamdulillah, he had it. Like I said, i don't have this very detailed, very like unattainable list, but I was like not that, i'm not saying, you're 40 years old.

Speaker 1: 18:31

You don't know what's on there.

Speaker 2: 18:32

I don't know So, but what I'm saying is like I just had. He had to be very much into his Dean and he was. That was something that was in his daily life. He had to be a really good connection with his family. He had to be emotionally secure. He had to be low key. He had to be funny. I have to find them funny because I like laughing. I like the sound of my own laughter. So I wanted to be best friends with this person and I wanted him to be like. I know this is going to sound crazy, but I wanted him to be unbroken.

Speaker 3: 19:09

Who has emotional security enough to create safe space for you.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Yeah, the reason why I say that, all jokes aside, is because I knew that I was working on tough things. I was working on tough trauma. I grew up an orphan right. I lost my parents in about six months time and I have a very vivid image of how they died and who they were and how it wasn't like someone that I didn't know was these people that I grew up idealizing that I lost. So that was a lot of trauma and I didn't even open that vault of trauma until I was in high school, maybe even in college. So it was very ripe. I knew that if he was damaged as well, then if he had his own trauma that he was working on, then we could trigger each other. Yeah, i might say that's a bad thing.

Speaker 3: 19:59

That sometimes is a good thing, as long as you both know how to navigate that, communicate that saying being a vulnerable space and, look, i believe the way you said this has triggered this part of me Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: 20:13

you get there and have that conversation when you are, i feel like, healthier, right, healthier than I was at that time. So what you're basically saying is when you were coming up with your list you were very conscious of who I was at the time and what I was capable of doing and what kind of communication, Yeah, And what I was going through and what kind of communication I was able to have, right, That being able to be like what you said made me feel this way.

Speaker 2: 20:38

I feel like that's a higher emotional intelligence that I didn't have at the time And I knew I didn't have that at the time So I needed it. So you wanted somebody who has emotional intelligence.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Yes, that too, So all of those things right. So he met those things that were very real. For me It was very custom made list. And again, that part of being I didn't care how much money you have, i don't care what kind of family you come from, tribe was not that important to me. You had to be Autumn. I didn't care what tribe, you had to be Muslim. That was very important, like, okay, you had to know where you're going.

Speaker 1: 21:11

First, the influence part. I feel like I grew up in a very traditional Autumn family And so one of the things Can you explain what that is? So, for example, my parents were very traditional and really religious. We went to Madrasa every weekend and there were certain things that were kind of a given And like that was expected, without it being verbally said. The requirement was an Oromogai right, and even better requirement was that he's a Arsé, and even maybe my dad's tribe right.

Speaker 1: 21:42

So these are things that it's not outwardly spoken, but it's more of like yeah, that's what it is. You know what there's nothing wrong with. And so when I'm doing these lists, i'm mindful of that too. So, trying to find a brother that were I didn't have to go against the grain when I brought him home to my parents And my husband, alhamdulillah, hits a lot of those 40. And some of them were working towards it. But, alhamdulillah, there is a power in writing things down And it's almost when you write it down, your mind kind of looks for it. It's clear, it's clear, yeah, it's very clear. And so when you are entertaining somebody or when you're talking to somebody, you already know okay, this person's clearly not on the list, so next, you won't be wasting your time. You won't not be wasting your time. So, alhamdulillah, in that way, that list really has helped me out.

Speaker 3: 22:41

The second question is the question is for both of you How big is the religiousity aspect play a role based on what you grow up around And when you're talking to this person? how did you create that idea?

Speaker 2: 22:55

Yeah, it was huge, huge, huge, huge, because I feel like my heart was always religious. My heart always gravitated towards the Dean. I didn't have the knowledge In my family. it was a good, a pro and a con, in the sense that religion was never forced on us. Because it was enforced on us, i was able to maintain my love for it. Does that make sense? Hijab was never forced on us. Therefore, when I did wear hijab, like it was a big, but when I didn't wear it it wasn't a bad thing. So I didn't have this love-hate relationship with hijab. It was always love.

Speaker 2: 23:34

I did criticize myself for it and how it was more from me than my family. And then also the fact that religion wasn't forced on us. the pro of it was like it kept my love for it clean And like it wasn't contaminated by like, oh my God, i don't want to do this and I'm being forced to go here and do this. you know that thing versus with that. But I also wished that there was more of religious structure in our family, because if prayer was a daily thing, it was like something that was expected or something not necessarily preached or punished or something like that, but more of like that. you saw by example, knowing my heart and knowing what I wanted, i feel like it would have been something automatic for me instead of work. you know I say work because I had to work to get prayer to like a habit for me as an adult. versus people that I know now, that's just they can sense that aghaan coming, like you mean.

Speaker 1: 24:33

So like that, my sixth sense, yeah, and I don't have that.

Speaker 2: 24:38

For me, prayer is work. I have to work, i have to have alarms, i have to. You know what I mean. So for that, i think that was a con. That's why I wanted to make sure that my husband was someone that I could learn from. My husband was someone that had that sixth sense of like. Okay, i'm going to tell you guys a quick like.

Speaker 2: 24:55

The minute I knew this guy was my guy, we were at a fair like I don't know ride something. You know the ones that come to cities. It was like that. So we went there and I think it was like a time and you could feel him twitching. What's going on? He's like it's prayer time, i need to pray, but I don't know where to pray. He's literally like a female Like and I was like okay, and then he's like Oh, there's a grass right there. I have a prayer mat in my car, i'm going to go pray over there. And I was like where, at the front of the Walgreens, on the grass in front of the Walgreens is like yeah, and I'm like you guys run the north and Minnesota, the north, okay, where Trump's people live very freely. I was very scared And I was like.

Speaker 2: 25:42

You know I'm gonna keep watch You pray.

Speaker 2: 25:46

I literally was like my fear paralyze me, Like what if someone comes and like hit us or something, when we're so like I'm gonna keep watch you? Safety wasn't a thing for him. He didn't care who was watching, He just put on his prayer rug. He put it on the thing He found his giblah and he just started praying. And I'm sitting there in fear like okay, who's gonna come? How am I gonna protect this guy, Like I'm ready for it And all of these things. But it wasn't a thing for him. I knew I was like this guy and it wasn't. That wasn't a one day, that was an repeated thing. But the more he did that and I knew he wasn't doing it to impress me, It was just as an instinct. So whenever someone asked me when did you know I'm, like I knew in front of Walgreens.

Speaker 1: 26:28

At that fair in Trumbland. Yeah, yeah, i think for me, religiosity was always a thing in our family. We grew up, like I said earlier, going to madrasa and my mom and my dad especially, like they made it a thing for us to learn Quran and go through Tajweed and stuff like that. And my dad, like I always heard him, he would finish the Quran like every couple of days. He would just read through it every couple of days. And so, alhamdulillah, now that I'm grown. At the time when I was young I was like, okay, why do I have to do this? Why am I doing this and learning all this stuff? But now, alhamdulillah, because I can read the Quran, because of that you know and I can go deeper in Islamic studies.

Speaker 1: 27:09

because of that and how strict they were, i'm so, so, so appreciative right now. It might not be the type of parenting that I want to do right now, but it was the right way to parent us as a first generation in early 2000s. That was the best thing that they could have done for us.

Speaker 3: 27:29

How did you guys fight within yourself the religious, cultural aspect of it? What I mean by that I'm going to explain for our audience and as well as for you guys too is that when people just do the religious things for the cultural reason like Ramadan, festival thing, and was that some things that you have to like kind of clear and like listen, i love Allah and I want to focus on that when it comes to my partner and my family that I want to build with this individual and versus the religious culture. Like you know, you have Eid, you have Ramadan and you have this specific cultural things that we do, but the religiousity is not there. They're going to the Masjid part constantly learning about the Deen or re-evaluating good in the seminars or things like that. How did you guys kind of?

Speaker 2: 28:14

battle that out. For me it's interesting because I can look at it two ways. Ramadan was when everybody's Deen was on the epics. Everybody was like, well, in our family might not be big for everybody, but everybody in our family was wearing hijab and everybody was in our family, was praying, the things that you think like it's like cool, not that big of a deal, but it was a thing. It was like you pray, you fast, but then it was more about that. That was like the big thing And they go to prayer.

Speaker 2: 28:48

The guys go to Masjid for prayer. The girl we never went for prayer during Ramadan for like tarawih or stuff like that, i always thought that it was just the guys that were allowed to go, until in high school, again, this girl we would go to tarawih and we would go to hadjud and stuff like that with her family, and that's when I was oh wow, there's not just us that are going there. So that was really cool for me to learn and stuff like that. But the con of the cultural Islamic connection is, i feel like, not for me necessarily, but for someone that I love in my very, very daily the part that pushed them away from Islam was in Islam. It was the cultural, it was the culture that was intertwined with Islam, if that makes sense. People, culturally, are very judgmental. So we were at this fundraiser and I went with a friend of mine And she's Nader Hijabi.

Speaker 2: 29:46

It's very interesting because she's pursuing Islam in her own way. She, literally, while she was in college in north of north north of north, in the middle of white people, she Amazon ordered, like, the English translation of Quran and like she's like reading the Quran and like listening to lectures. She's pursuing Islam in her own way and the way that makes sense to her. She's trying to understand it and learn from it and stuff like that. So because they saw her and they saw how, like the fact that she was in a hijabi and the way she was dressed and she was just modestly, you know, it wasn't like she was dressed inappropriately, she was dressed appropriately, she was just not a hijabi and she could hear her. I'm talking about her like, look at her and this and that, and she was just getting so angry And imagine this is a fundraiser, you're there to help people. How are you there to help people but like are judging people about how they're dressed?

Speaker 2: 30:36

Not only they're talking about her, but they were laughing, they were laughing and making it very clear and very uncomfortable And I was trying to like joke and keep her mind off of it. But I remember when she was trying to say something, i said don't say anything, don't match their energy. But I remember when she left I walked behind her because I was like, just in case someone says something, i don't want her to be the person that makes a scene. It's going to be me, you know what I mean. So I walked behind her just to make sure because of that she's walking out and they're saying something behind her. I wanted to say I was ready And that's people like that that make it so hard for people like her, people like me, to get closer. Because if you're not someone that goes into the book, if you're not someone that goes into the right and use the right arena to look for Islam, and if you're looking for Islam and people, they will disappoint you and they will push you away from it.

Speaker 3: 31:38

Yeah, that's why I asked that question for you guys, as in looking for a spouse, or even the process or examples of that you saw, is there a moment where you're like I'm not going to take this cultural behavior aspect of it affect, the beauty of the religion as I'm getting to know this individual And or the examples of other people you see, because sometimes what they would tell people would tell you is that I know that has been said to me that prayer you make him pray when you guys get married It's not that important. You know, it's like those types of comment for me is like marriage, marriage more important or the cultural aspect of this person being wanted to get married? I'm like no, marriage is not that important, the prayer is important.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Right. I will say, though, in terms of religiosity and stuff like that, i wanted somebody that was a good Muslim, but I did not want a sheikh.

Speaker 3: 32:32

Yeah, I can hear that too.

Speaker 1: 32:34

Because I've had experiences where certain people that push the narrative that they're a sheikh or whatever they tend to come off as very snobby And that's not to say all of them are, but the ones that I've encountered and that I've talked to are. So when it comes to the initial stages of talking to my husband, I love the fact that he was religious, you know, and that he was low key and that he was down to earth and stuff like that, But I also like the fact that he was a sheikh and that he was an ultra conservative, ultra religious.

Speaker 2: 33:14

I think also, in a way, one thing I'm learning and I've learned in my search for Islam and my search in Islam is that the people that are the most connected and the most authentic, the most internally driven to be better for themselves and better for their family, and better, better Muslims. They don't have time. They don't have time to be judgmental, they don't have time to be critical. They don't. They are so busy and fixing what they think is wrong with them or how they're not where they need to be, that they're so merciful, so merciful. So whenever I see people that are like judgmental or I'm just like you've got time, you've got time, that means I'm not gonna say that, but I'm like you're not what you're projecting to be. Yeah, this is what I get from that vibe.

Speaker 3: 34:05

So last question that I wanted to ask about this topic is that what are some traits in our culture or values that you find very important, specifically in our normal community? Like, i love this part of our culture, that you want to amplify it in your kids and yourself and you want to continue to like, grow in it, even though now we're talking about we talked about religion, but I want to hear more about our normal culture. What is that for you to?

Speaker 2: 34:30

I want someone that's proud proud or more, that someone that wants to learn about his or more, what being or more means, because we all have a different idea of what or more is right And we all have different or more cultures. And if you're someone that's like, oh I didn't know that, i want to know that, or even someone that understands that had learning different languages from Ethiopia, it doesn't make you less or more. That was very, very important to me, actually, because my or me, my or me, my or me, my or me. wow, i lost it.

Speaker 2: 35:07

That was very important to me because my or me is not that great. So I wanted to make sure that, specifically, like he either understood I'm hard, He knew I'm hard, or he understood I'm hard, or he he was okay with the language you know, and that knowing the language didn't mean that all of the sudden, because a lot of people considered the fact that like you speak I'm hard, like you're a sellout.

Speaker 3: 35:27

The auto thing. the language that you're saying earlier is that having someone who's specifically speak or more, that I understand and communicate in order. I think it was such a beautiful romantic language that it's hard to get angry in or more, and I can't passionately express myself when I'm mad in order more, i can only sweet talk.

Speaker 1: 35:49

Right, yeah, it's a beautiful language. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I would say that because my husband is really really good at Oromo. My Oromo has improved. Yay For you. I know, good for me, good at me.

Speaker 3: 36:05

Yeah, do you guys speak in?

Speaker 1: 36:07

Oromo at home, though We do, and I try to make it a point to speak with our kids in Oromo too. It's hard because, like my little girl, i'll say something in Oromo and then she'll put it back to me in English. Then I'll just do it in English. It's intentional, like you have. I have to intentionally be like okay, let me talk to her in Oromo. It's not an automatic thing. Yeah, send it to Ako's house.

Speaker 2: 36:30

Yeah, right, I feel like that's what I'm trying. I feel like I want to talk to them in a more heart, because my own for sex, right, but then they go to the grandma's house and that's what they do. Oromo.

Speaker 3: 36:40

Yeah, Oromo.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Yeah, I want them to be able to. I want to consciously talk to them in Amharic or Oromifa, but then it ends up being in English. I know, Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:54

So let's talk a little bit about beauty standards and our culture, because I was watching something and this girl. She was saying basically how, like Oromo, beauty standards are very attainable. It's not like the far fetched Western standards of like super skinny, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you know how, like in Oromo, we value like, for example, darker guns or the, what is it called? The gap Yeah the gap and stuff like that. Yeah, it's not extreme.

Speaker 1: 37:26

It's not extreme beauty standards, but it's like the average girl can attain it. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 37:34

Yes, but I also want to push back a little bit because I feel like, to a certain degree, not just Oromo culture, but East African culture and this I feel comfortable saying. stuff in culture and I will take the heat if that's not true We have our beauty standards is colonized a little bit, because the darker the girl is or the darker the guy is, the less attractive they're seen. No, not necessarily, but look let me show you Hold on. let me show you the darker one For the darker one.

Speaker 1: 37:59

I feel like, in terms of dark skin, I think certain parts is valued.

Speaker 2: 38:05

What does that mean?

Speaker 1: 38:06

Like Gurati, bunatia or whatever, like certain songs or whatever They do value. They're dark skin. I don't know. I mean it might be my mute. I think that's more of a ha. Not really Communism talking, not really.

Speaker 2: 38:20

You never know, can I tell you something I know a very, very, very like prominent family. Prominent family, that is very much regular, my shade, i'm not too light, i'm not too dark, whatever That. They have segments in their family, that is, they're very, very Oromo, like everybody knows them.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Where is this?

Speaker 2: 38:40

Here, even here in America. Imagine, this is in America And everybody, like they live in I think I don't know in the Cedar, but everybody knows them and they have segments of their family, because of marriage and so on and so forth, that they're darker And they would like, oh, she would be so pretty if she wasn't so dark. And Oromifa I would butcher it, but I know how to say it Because I've heard it so much said to their kids that it's Oromo like I know the way you say it because of them It should be so pretty if she wasn't so dark.

Speaker 1: 39:15

Do you think that sentiment has influenced you when looking for a spouse?

Speaker 2: 39:20

No, i personally have a type, my type. Well, i know. No, i personally have a type of it's very, very, very specific type. I don't like guys that are too light. I'm not attracted to guys that are too light or too dark And that's just attraction, it's not value. I don't put value on that, it's just attraction. Just like I don't like guys that are too tall. I know girls are like oh my god, i die for the 6'10" whatever. I hate looking up at people. I don't know if it's a power thing. If you're too tall for me, i cannot deal with you. It just bothers me. Again, that's a performance, that's something, a lot of people like and.

Speaker 3: 39:56

I don't like.

Speaker 2: 39:57

So stuff like that. I used to not like facial hair, but I like it.

Speaker 1: 40:03

It grew on her, it grew on me now. You like a clean-shaven?

Speaker 2: 40:07

day. I was just used to like that But now I don't. I know I can't deal with clean-shaven people. That's a preference, but I don't have value to that. I could see someone's beauty and just be like not for me, but culturally that's a thing. Culturally, colorism and automotive stuff it can. Culture is a thing. It's a point where our women use bleach to dye and as bleach right, fair and lovely bleach, all of these things It's like.

Speaker 3: 40:32

I agree, and so many asked the fact that there is a little bit of colorism in it, that blackness does exist in our community.

Speaker 2: 40:40

Our funyang. What is it? It's funyang, right, funyang. Yeah, it's a baka ke, it's a baka ke. But whatever They say, the funyang is so flat It's bold.

Speaker 1: 40:49

There is very wet colorism.

Speaker 3: 40:51

Yes, There is texturism, there is colorism, hair That's included texturism.

Speaker 2: 40:56

Yes, sorry, i'm just being very tired right now.

Speaker 3: 41:01

There is texturism, there is colorism, there is also a little bit of anti-blackness in our community. I can agree with that, and I have to also kind of create a disclaimer that that does not apply to every aspect of automo in general.

Speaker 3: 41:15

It's just based on the environment that we're in and we notice it And the comments that you made about how it should be it should be pretty if she was lighter skin, absolutely Being a light skin, or they call it magala, meaning that in between color. It's very celebrated, which I've heard of that And I agree with that, and I've heard it within my own family members and circles and stuff like that. And I try to dismantle that within myself And even if I notice that within, i look at someone and it's like, oh, she's pretty. But if there's butt coming in my head I'm like, no, she's pretty, right.

Speaker 3: 41:52

And so it's so sad to say this and it's also sad in when it comes to but then that doesn't apply when it comes to the choices for men. We don't say, oh, that guy's sued this and we're not going to marry him. But I also have to say this me being biased a lot of automo girls are beautiful, a lot of them. I really have not seen automo girls. That's not pretty, seriously. They're so pretty, is that? sometimes I'm like, why are guys are not photogenic? You look at them like why?

Speaker 3: 42:24

And then you see them in real life, like, okay, you don't look that bad, your photos are not selling you very well, but to also look at that when we're talking about the topic for today, is that we, because of those language that we hear in our household, those texturism, those colorism, the blackness that we have does contribute to speaking our spouse. That's true. So, to close, our main topic for today, what would be one of like advices about colorism that you want to give? or and then also about religiosity, about the culture norm that is like patriarchy, very it's not acceptable work in this environment that we're in, because some of the cultural things that we know from back home doesn't work here.

Speaker 1: 43:10

When saying that, too, i feel like we tend to forget sometimes that even in the culture that we're in here, in the Western culture, there are things that are influencing us when we are looking for a partner or whatever. So, keeping that in mind, i feel like it's really important to take your culture and say, okay, these are the things that I am aware of that are influencing me and influencing my choice and my identity. And then, on the flip side, too, this is the environment that I'm in and these are the things that are influencing me and making like a wise decision about what type of partner you want. Knowing all of these things, i feel like it's not black and white, where we're all saying, okay, all culture is influencing and this is bad and stuff like that, but just picking something that works for you. And if you are saying, okay, i'm Oroma Iwana Mary, oroma Iwana Mary, i'm an Oroma guy, that's totally fine, there's nothing wrong with that too.

Speaker 2: 44:06

That is a very interesting topic and I want to just jump on that everything. I'm sure I said it The whole time. I feel like when we were talking about culture, we were talking about Oroma culture, forgetting that we are also talking about the diaspora, and the culture that you grow up in here is like the culture in Minneapolis is different than the culture in Blaine and the culture in California is different than the culture in Texas, right? So keeping that also in mind, i think when you are looking for a person, i feel like we always come back to that introspective thing where you are looking within yourself. Like you know, i'm sure I did making that list.

Speaker 2: 44:41

I think lists are very important. It's almost speaking things into existence. Making that list of like these are my non-negotiables, these are the things that are very important to me, and then analyzing those lists into why are these things on my list? What is contributing within myself, within my culture, within my family dynamic, to make these things on my list? right, if it's coming from a positive, constructive space, then that's great. If your list is influenced by your trauma, like if you're looking for a certain type of guy because you have a certain type of lifestyle, then you're responding to trauma versus like looking into what you actually need and want, right? So, making sure you analyze and filter through and evaluate and put your list to court. Take your list to court and figure that out with the cultural lens, with the religious lens, with the family lens and so on and so forth, and also evaluate and make sure you're very critical of the people that are couples around you, right, the people that are married around you.

Speaker 2: 45:43

Yeah, and see that works for you and see how that's influencing you, how that relationship is influencing you. If your parents are in an abusive relationship, is that influencing you? Is that something that you are tolerant of Or is that something that triggers you? If your parents are in a very co-dependent relationship, or your siblings are in a co-dependent relationship, is that something that you are into Or do you see that in yourself? So, just being very aware of what kind of relationships that are like either marriage relationships, whatever that is around you, and how you view those relationships and how those relationships influence you. So those are the things that I would recommend that people do.

Speaker 3: 46:24

Okay, well, thank you so much, ladies. It's been such an amazing conversation, as usual, and I think this has been a really good, difficult conversation, but until next time. I really wanted to say I really enjoyed myself listening to you talk about your experiences.

Speaker 1: 46:38

Until next time. Assalamu alaikum, waalaikum, waalaikum, as-salam, join the conversation in the comment section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers, and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah SWT accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.