What happens when you find the courage to stand up to arranged marriage expectations, but still find yourself searching for your soulmate at 33? In this heartfelt episode, we hear from a brave listener who shares her emotional journey of defying her parents' wishes for an early arranged marriage and navigating the anxiety of finding love while grappling with societal pressures.
From Disney films to romcoms, the media plays a significant role in shaping our ideas about relationships and marriage. We discuss how these influences can create dangerous expectations and why it's crucial to be mindful of the media we consume. Plus, we dive into the differences between arranged and romantic courtship, exploring how blending these two approaches can lead to a successful and fulfilling relationship.
As we try to balance cultural expectations with our own desires, we also examine the role of family involvement in courtship and offer advice for those feeling the pressure to marry. Ultimately, we believe in the power of trusting Allah and the strength of sincere dua for guidance in love and marriage. So join us in this eye-opening discussion as we explore the complex world of relationships, culture, and faith.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
What happens when you find the courage to stand up to arranged marriage expectations, but still find yourself searching for your soulmate at 33? In this heartfelt episode, we hear from a brave listener who shares her emotional journey of defying her parents' wishes for an early arranged marriage and navigating the anxiety of finding love while grappling with societal pressures.
From Disney films to romcoms, the media plays a significant role in shaping our ideas about relationships and marriage. We discuss how these influences can create dangerous expectations and why it's crucial to be mindful of the media we consume. Plus, we dive into the differences between arranged and romantic courtship, exploring how blending these two approaches can lead to a successful and fulfilling relationship.
As we try to balance cultural expectations with our own desires, we also examine the role of family involvement in courtship and offer advice for those feeling the pressure to marry. Ultimately, we believe in the power of trusting Allah and the strength of sincere dua for guidance in love and marriage. So join us in this eye-opening discussion as we explore the complex world of relationships, culture, and faith.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to difficult conversations over coffee. Please grab your coffee, sit back, relax and enjoy. Assalamu alaikum everybody, welcome back. We are super excited to start this season. We have been getting a lot of responses on social media and through email And today we want to kind of go over a specific email that we got and just tackle it. It kind of touches on a lot of different topics. The email goes I hope this email finds you well.
Speaker 1:When I was younger, i loved Cinderella. I love the idea that my prince charming was somewhere out there, white horse and all, someone that would understand me and was my best friend. My parents had other ideas. My dad believed that it was his duty to hand off his responsibilities as Wally by finding me a suitable husband When I was 16, 17,. A perfect match came. As hard as I tried, i could not get myself to like the guy. Let's call him A. A being 17 years older than me, i felt like we were on different planets. My father ultimately gave me the ultimatum of a blessing or a curse. The choice was mine. I chose the blessing.
Speaker 1:A would come to visit and we spoke on the phone. We had nothing in common and I would use any excuse to get off the phone. His appearance started to change from visit to visit. He grew out of beard and looked more religious His way of trying to match my appearance, i guess. All the while I kept making dua. I did not want to disobey my father, but I could not see myself marrying A.
Speaker 1:On the day of our engagement, a asked me to download some Quran onto his phone. Curiosity got the better of me and I went through his phone Right. There was a sign I felt I needed. There were inappropriate images on his phone. The night before I had made the most sincere salah that I had ever made. Alhamdulillah, allah will never burden you with more than you can handle. I called off everything. My dad was angry and couldn't look at me for months, even though he is my father, and unjust ultimatum will never stick, insha'allah. Now that I'm older, i want to give marriage another chance. I was disheartened and did not want to entertain it for a while. I am now 33 years old, with a master's degree and a good job. I am constantly told that I missed my chance and should settle on any guy that shows interest. Will I find my soul mate? That one's kind of heavy guys? What do you guys think?
Speaker 2:SubhanAllah, that's so deep and that's so sad. Looks like she was saying that the guy from the Gekko like because she was religious, he was trying to morph himself into someone that he wasn't, and then she wasn't connecting with him And that dua. I feel like when we make the most sincere dua and we sometimes don't see that immediate response, allah being the saviour, that he is answering her dua in such a blatant way. If this guy had deleted those inappropriate pictures and she didn't see it, or she didn't know about who this guy was until they were married and have kids and such, you can go off from that in so many different ways. Putting her aside, her wants her idea of what a man looks like, what a marriage looks like, what a husband looks like to satisfy and to make her dad happy. That's such a burden I feel like I'll have you. What do you think?
Speaker 3:That is very, very powerful stories And it's very relatable too, because I'm sure there's other people who had similar experiences as this individual who sent us this email. I wonder if, now that she's 33, she's saying no to that marriage and she hasn't potentially found anybody What the society and the conversation family member has constantly remind her of Like you, let that amazing, incredible proposal and now look at you being all single. Nobody's going to marry you. Now You're 33 and it's a lot harder to find someone and your biological clock is on too. You probably have this many years and that anxiety and fear would be so much of.
Speaker 3:I can definitely empathize to her this individual situation, because people do a lot of things to make you aware. She probably also would think did I make the right decision? Was me making that a dot point? Did I really hasten the answer? Could I just marry that person and be okay? But now that I've been single for the past this many years, she might be start even questioning her decision because one, like I said, society will make her feel certain way about it. Secondly, her family will make her feel certain way about it, and also herself, and now, at 33, she probably had maybe other proposals that didn't work out. But then the doubt. The questioning does definitely impact. I'm just imagining her anxiety level and how she's navigating at this stage of her life because of, like, one decision that she made which I would probably say is the best thing for her at that point. But how is she doing with that today? That's my curiosity, i guess.
Speaker 2:The courage at 16, 17, to be able to stand up to your family and then to understand like, wow, these are the things that I'm doing. But then thinking of all of that as a 33 year old people telling her just settle for any guy that comes your way. Imagine how that actually messes a person up, even not just that, not at just 33, but every year after that. See, like Habay said, you miss that golden opportunity. You miss that. Now look, your friends are this and that and the other. And she knows people don't understand sometimes, like people know they know what's going on.
Speaker 2:They know that they're sleeping alone at night, i promise you, they know that they don't have kids running, or they know Why are you sitting there telling her you should settle? And is that the only form of success?
Speaker 1:So there's a couple of things going on here. I feel like there's her expectation, what she thought watching those movies and stuff like that, what she was looking for in a potential spouse. And then the other thing is her family pressures and how the culture in the society kind of affects what they think of when they thought of like marriage proposals and how her father kind of said you know, i'm trying to give away my responsibility, i want to find out, which is nothing wrong with it. You know, i'm trying to find a good suitor for my daughter so that she can be set up for life. And then the other thing is now her being 33 and looking back and saying what and people telling her you miss that opportunity. Like you said, isn't it interesting how our culture influences our marriage processes and our expectations going into marriage? So just to kind of jump off of that story, let's kind of discuss, like, how media and culture influences our marriage process and our expectations. What do you think, barney?
Speaker 2:It has a lot and almost everything to do with how and what to expect when it comes to marriage, right, the movies that we watch, the cultural expectations like what kind of man you're supposed to bring home, even though our culture never talks about. Like, as a culture We don't talk about. Our parents don't sit down and have a conversation with their kids about hey, you know, this is what a good man looks like, this is what a good woman looks like, this is what a healthy relationship looks like, this is what you should look for in a person and your significant other. We never have these conversations. We're just automatically expected to bring this perfect person and live with this perfect person, even though we have no idea how to identify the pros, the cons, the red flags, the green flags in a person. And then also, when you add the media aspect to it, the movies that you see, the TV shows that you see, how it impacts you a lot specifically for us.
Speaker 2:I mean, i can speak for myself. For example, i grew up watching Bollywood movies. I grew up watching Shahrukh Khan and Khut Khut Khut, taha Hai and the guy going and saving the girl from you know, it's him and her against the world right And he honors her and he loves her. Unconsciously, we are taught these things by the media that we consume. And then now, if you think about it, the things that our children, our sisters, our brothers see on the media. It's scary. We have the Kevin Samuels of the world, that andrew tapes of the world, telling them like a woman is supposed to be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen. And then that's her use. That's what marriage is supposed to look like. She's only useful for those things. Her education, her smarts, how much money she brings, is not important for the marriage.
Speaker 3:I really like what you said about the media body. The media does show us realistic relationship, especially romcom, which shows realistic expectation of what relationship should look like, because there is the romanticization at the beginning and then there's conflict in the middle and the way the conflict are resolved And that it looks practical. What relationship should look like? But my follow up question what about Disney? I mean at least Disney before Frozen, disney movie before Frozen how is all about happy ever after? there is this Prince Charming who's going to come rescue from your struggles and traumas and life issues. What about that? How does that also impact us, especially younger, and what Prince Charming supposed to look like?
Speaker 2:I mean to tie that on even to the email that was sent to us, right? She was talking about specifically Cinderella, and in Cinderella the girl is the servant of the house and then the guy. Literally she goes to the ball and he puts a shoe on her feet and then all of a sudden, all her issues are solved, right. So it's a good point because it tells us that, like, once you meet that person, everything is supposed to be okay, everything is supposed to be fixed. He's supposed to be that thing that fixes all your issues and not to quote a really bad relationship.
Speaker 2:But there was this quote by Will Smith that he said I am not responsible for my wife's happiness, and when I first heard that I was like taken back, like, oh, like, dude, that's all messed up, no-transcript. The individual that he calls his wife, she has to acknowledge like, these are the things that make me happy, these are the things that don't make me happy, and she has to communicate that with him so that he knows how to make her happy. You know what I mean, and I feel like in Disney movies it doesn't teach you. He's supposed to just know. He's supposed to fix it, he's supposed to get you out of your trauma, get you out of your horrible life and fix it and make your life better. And you're supposed to be perfect.
Speaker 2:And it's unrealistic expectations like those that is implanted in us And then that causes us to have these flawed ideas of what marriage is supposed to look like, what relationships are supposed to look like, what we're supposed to expect from a person. Another thing MediaTeach says actually is underquited love. You love someone until they love you back. You love, love, love. You give, you give, and then you're like the best friend that's sitting in the back and like watching him, like love someone else. And then one day he sees you because the other girl dumped him and you were there for him, and then he falls in love with you. Or you glow up, you go to a makeover and you glow up And then all of a sudden he falls in love with you.
Speaker 3:Technically, that's what kush kush hot bite.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. I think.
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 2:See, isn't it funny how we are memories like cherry pick certain things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it goes to say, though, like how powerful media is, and like, whether you like it or not, we are consuming these things. And so even if you say, oh yeah, i only watch this, but you know I'm not acting like this, or whatever, it's subconsciously already downloaded in your mind, and so then we tend to not think about these things because it's so subconscious. And so when you do go and look at potential spouse, or when you're recording, it's already downloaded You're already saying, okay, he's got to do this. And you don't say it in words of like I need somebody to save me from my trauma, but that's basically what you're looking for. So what would you say then? Like, just don't consume media at all.
Speaker 2:I think you should be very mindful, and mindful of what you're watching and what it's actually telling you. I think one thing specifically that I learned when I was in high school is after the movies. a couple of my friends and I would dissect the movie that we just watched. we didn't do it intentionally, we're not trying to be like save ourselves or anything. It was just what girls did when we were just Oh, you did you see that part where he did this thing or she did this thing? and you sit there and you analyze.
Speaker 2:Okay, i just watched an hour and a half of a romcom where I'm going to go back to the unrequited love part because I'm very, very passionate about how unhealthy that is And like 45 minutes of the one hour and 30 minute movie, this girl or this guy is not seen in their authentic self with by the other person that they're fantasizing about. They're putting this person in a pedestal and magnifying them and thinking that they're the perfect person. And in the last 10 minutes this guy notices that, or this girl notices the other person when they are at their best And then they fall in love and they cut, the ghost cut. And what is that teaching us? And we thought at that time it was like really cute and really romantic. So I think what you would need to do is you want to be very mindful. If you're a parent, be very, very mindful what your kids are watching. I always defer to Bollywood. I always say that I'm only going to make my daughter which isn't any better than Hollywood.
Speaker 2:Okay, we could have a debate about this.
Speaker 1:Plus you have like three hours of just yelling and singing. What is going on? I can't. I'm sorry, i'm gonna offend it.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you why I think Bollywood is a little bit better. I think it's okay, can we?
Speaker 3:clarify which Bollywood is Okay romantic old school.
Speaker 2:Bollywood, old school Bollywood, where it's like I'm mostly. My Bollywood revolves around Shahrukh Anin, ritik Roshan, salman Khan and Amir Khan. Those people, right, i think of the loyalty aspect, i think of the honor aspect, the DBLJ. There's this scene that stands out to me. Where this girl is I don't know if she's, i forget if she was drunk a Khaja Licks character, she's drunk and she falls asleep And when she wakes up she gets worried that she might have done something, you know, to dishonor herself by sleeping with this guy. And he tells her I'm an Indian boy and I would never, take advantage of you and dishonor you, and that says a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a low bar right, but the fact that honoring a girl means protecting her even when she's not able to protect herself. Honoring a girl means actually having an intellectual conversation with her, or having, but most of the time it's not like they're having intelligent conversations.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, but they're having conversations.
Speaker 2:Right, they're having conversations. They are getting to know each other, they see each other in places You don't see them like, even though the attraction is physical, in most cases, it's not just physical attraction.
Speaker 1:I think it's just not blatant. You don't see them kissing on the screen or whatever, if it like they're singing da-da-da And then the scene just cuts off and you see the next morning. Clearly your mind already fills in the blank.
Speaker 2:But they don't. They don't go to the next morning, they go back to the market where they were walking right, like literally they were still walking.
Speaker 3:But going back to the question, which is does social media itself impact the way that we pick our spouse? Yes, it does. There's a pros and cons to that And I think if you don't have a place of reference or you haven't seen a positive relationship as you're growing up, sometimes seeing those relationship on screen it creates what it should supposed to look like And so it paints a picture for you. Yes, the con of that, i would say, is that the negative implication of how there's going to be this perfect person who got their stuff together, who will be persistent and consistent with you in the whole process, willing to fight for you, and then he's going to win you over, right.
Speaker 3:And he's going to see all the layers of traumas and all of fears that you have built a wall around and he's going to come and break it, which for me, i would say that was one of those things that has been painted for me by watching this type of movies, both Budwood and Hollywood movies, because I haven't seen a man being so persistent and consistent about knowing he wanted to marry you. He's willing to go about the right way, which what you were saying earlier, i'm sure is the balance of it, the Dean way, which is where they notice you and they're sure about you and they go about going to your family saying I'm interested in marrying your daughter.
Speaker 1:So I feel like the dangerous part of like the media and the movies, bollywood and Hollywood is that it completely disregards You're not even supposed to be in love anyway before getting married. You watch these movies thinking that we're supposed to be madly in love and then get married, which the tradition tells us a whole different story Where, like, yes, you get to know the person. We're not telling you like, jump into it blindly, but you get to know the person. Actually, they have done studies where, like the quote unquote, arranged marriages tend to last longer Because when you get after the marriage, you get to know this person and you fall in love after you marry.
Speaker 3:But the arranged marriage we have to define. What that is is basically two people coming together to court to get to know each other. And the most, where how two friends get to know each other. Having coffee having you know what I mean. Somebody shout over that too, as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the only reason why I say arranged is that it's completely different than modern courtship and how, like, people are saying, okay, let's go out, let's go to movies. The only reason why I use arranged is that bondures are not being crossed And then you also have chaperones, and so when that happens, you get to meet this person, you ask questions that are meaningful and that tells you, like, what this person's character is. Then, if you like that, then you move on, because the fact of the matter is that, even if you know this person like, shows you this good side, this rosy side, and then you guys get married, it could be completely different. So you really don't know.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking about the fact that, in my opinion, the reason why arranged marriages work more than romantic courtship is because of the fact that both people that come to the table are interested in the same thing, so they're both interested in marriage. So when they are courting each other, they are asking questions to figure out is this the person that I would spend the rest of my life with? So they're not asking rosy BS questions.
Speaker 2:They probably ask that, but that's not the most important thing. They get straight to the point of, like these are the things that are important to me. Are those things important to you too? While romantic courtship, i think, wastes a lot of time with fluff and BS, but I do think romance is very important And I do think, like, attraction, physical attraction is very important, which is why, probably, i love Bollywood movies so much, because, like, it's love at first sight And I do think they're more epic than Hollywood movies.
Speaker 2:That's one thing we have to acknowledge and Alhamdulillah for our Dean and Alhamdulillah for our culture, because it allows us to ask those important questions. But the way we go wrong is that where we think, okay, all of these things are important, but the physical relationship, the connection, the chemistry is not important, which is false. If you don't have chemistry with the person that's sitting next to you, if you guys agree on one, 70, 80% of the things, it's just not going to work because at the end of the day you're going to have to lie with that person so define?
Speaker 1:What do you mean by romantic courtship? I think we all have different ideas of what romantic courtship means.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't know if this exists, so if you blend this traditional arranged marriage Pros, where two people that are interested in the same thing come to the same space and they are shadowed by another person so that there's no shaitan among them, and then you bring this chemistry and physical attraction and Friendship and you blend that too. I think that's what I think about, like romantic slash Arranged, like that's what it means, like my ideal romantic relationship. That's what it would look like the halal way. Right, you talk and you gain this. Like all that person gets me. They understand what I'm saying. We have the similar history or, even if we don't have similar history, like you have the capacity and empathy to Extend yourself to understand what I'm going through or what I went through whatever cases.
Speaker 1:would you say I love you pre marriage or post marriage? I?
Speaker 3:believe the fifth you're putting that.
Speaker 3:Spot I said to my husband before marriage I think we both said it to each other before marriage but because of the Bollywood aspect, of the fact that We did meet and we did have conversations and we did have attractions towards each other mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually and we fell in love outside of the physical relationship, like the intimate relationship, so now that we have kind of understanding of what the media aspect of According someone looks like, let's go back to talking about what does it look like with cultural aspect of it, with family, because we need to combine those two, because culture and family kind of goes hands-in-hand and Tell us what are you guys are experiences, because you both are married, and what was that experience look like?
Speaker 1:What is the cultural perspective kind of impact and how you chose your husband when it comes to culture, being immigrants of this country, we come from a culture that does marriage Like a very specific way, and so I think for our parents It was almost a bit of a shock when they got here, because, like the girl, her father, that's the way he was used to marriage being done, him finding his girls suitors to marry them off, and so when coming to this country, there has to be a level of blending those two.
Speaker 1:And the parents too. They have to realize that This is not back home right. They can't just bring somebody and tell their daughters marry this person. You know, there has to be a level of flexibility, and that can only be achieved if they have a communication and flexibility with their kids, and so when that goes wrong is when that connection isn't there, and so the kids are Pushing back onto their parents because they're like okay, this is not fair. You know all this stuff. And then the parents are just not getting it. Because this? I'm doing this because I care about you. I'm doing this because, like, i want to set you up for success in life.
Speaker 3:I do think that does happen, though, where marriage has been forced and the daughter just obeying what her father is Asking of her, whether that's being made at a request or that we made out of, like cultural expectation. That does exist in living in the US. It does happen because a lot of us knows that at that young age, like this story has been told 17 and 16 you don't have Uncle to Understand or have mindset to say, okay, this doesn't good for this girl, but not every single girl's that we might be talking about have that ability to say okay, no, i'm not gonna do that, and I think it's like Bonnie said earlier It's such a brave thing to do for this girl to say that to her parents and to say I don't think this is a right fit for me, but there's a lot of girls who also doesn't want to disappoint their family.
Speaker 1:And especially with the emotional black male too, of where the dad is saying, see about her, i'm gonna curse you if you don't do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then there's also like Motiyamiti or you know they'll cut you off, You don't. All of that does happen. We just wanted to be mindful about people's experiences because there is like holistic and well-rounded experience that happened. There are people who's able to say this is not gonna work and their families might be disappointed to hear at that point, But they're really accepting of them. And then there are people who will just do it for the sake of not disappointing their family and they didn't have other way around it because of That emotional black male that we just wanted to make sure that everybody has a different Experiences and this story is one of those experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also think we have to be very mindful of where the parents are coming from and, like Absurah said, when the dad said, i want to give this my daughters away so that their responsibility is off of my shoulders, because that is their survival apparatus, that's what marriage was initially for most Cultures is for the girl to be handed off to another person so that that person takes care of her instead of the parents. You know, in the Western cultures that's what it was in Eastern cultures. Parents have to understand that That's not how it is anymore. Girls can Sustain themselves, they can take care of themselves financially and Emotionally and so on and so forth. So that's not the main and only reason for the girl to get married anymore.
Speaker 2:You can rest easy knowing that your daughter will be fine in that aspect by herself, right, but she wants to complete her Dean, she wants to be part, she wants to have a family, she wants to have a good, healthy marriage, a good, healthy children, and that cannot be done by black male, that cannot be done by someone that you just chose for her and that you you and your friend at one point, when you guys were younger, decided that your sons and daughters are gonna get married and therefore they have to. We understand that it's coming from a good place. It's coming from a sincere place for the safety and well-being of your children, but then at the same time, it has to be acknowledged like that's not it anymore. That's not enough. I don't think you guys answer my question though Culturally, what are some?
Speaker 3:because media has shown you what relationship looks like Because you seen it. This is what the pros and cons is what you look for it is what to like, how does family do, how does family? and culture has shown you those of you are married, oh, Oh this is the right way to go.
Speaker 2:What I have seen growing up was my mom and my dad. They were best friends. They were very, very close. They would have their minor minute fights in front of us. I would also see them make up right away. So I grew up seeing Arguments happen and then be resolved. I grew up seeing my mom go to work and excel in her work and Coming back and then my dad going to work and excel at his work and coming home And they both contributed in the house.
Speaker 2:And then, after they passed away, i saw that in my sisters, my sisters. They were both excellent, very independent women and then their husbands were just as much and they both kind of were like Water and fire. So whenever one was very passionate and very emotional, the other one was the cooler one. And then also the balance of Value like they all valued the same thing. They didn't have the same personality, god knows, but they valued the same thing.
Speaker 2:So it made me realize if your cornerstones, if your building blocks of your relationship is solid, if it's the same thing, then the rest of it can be anything, it can be negotiable. I should say That's what I noticed, but I also have seen in other relationships and other families where what I did it want. Even in certain situations in my own family, i've seen things that I didn't want to be part of. I didn't want to bring that into my life, right Like where I've seen with my father you know, family friends and stuff like that where the husband was this controlling, egocentric, misogynistic person who would impose and use religion as a tool to oppress his wife. I saw a really good balance between my family and my family, friends and what is positive and what is negative and what marriage is supposed to look like.
Speaker 3:So okay, go ahead up. Cheryl, Can you tell us more about your experiences on how culture has framed for you and made a place of reference for you when it comes to finding your spouse that will you marry to now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for me, i grew up in a very religious household, and so Islam and culture was always kind of front and center. Growing up, my mom worked outside the home and my dad was always home. I also worked from a very young age and so I knew I wanted to work outside the home after marriage as well, so that was a given. My mom was a very strong, resilient and hard-working. You know, i tried to emulate her, and that way, when it came to my spouse, i knew that he had to be Muslim, he had to be Oromo and he had to be better on the Dean than me.
Speaker 1:I wasn't looking to fall in love while courting. It was always kind of impressive on me that that's just not what we did in my family. We didn't fall in love before marriage, so I wasn't looking for that. I had some basic criteria and kind of left the rest to Allah.
Speaker 1:I did have experiences where brothers would kind of like change and almost craft their responses to what I would ask and, just being a very observant person, it didn't take me long to know that it was bluff, and so I decided to not even get all caught up in the whole love thing and so I went into courting with a mentality of kind of like fulfilling certain requirements, and from observing my parents, i had a pretty good idea of what I wanted and what I would like to avoid in a spouse. It's kind of funny, but my husband and I we used to send each other like really long emails answering a bunch of questions. I used to be painfully shy and a bit of a nerd, and I think my husband was worse. so email suited us and it was match made in heaven, so cute, and so we got to know each other over email and I'm making it sound like this was like years ago.
Speaker 3:The people even email anymore.
Speaker 2:What's?
Speaker 1:email. Romantically, though, put the letter in the bottle.
Speaker 3:It will reach you when it reach you. No, i think the way you went about it as far as you courting, is what Islam has recommended, where you can kind of put that barrier until you get to know that person fully, because love and experiences, people are gonna show you who they want you to see. Yeah, versus like the real aspect of it, like having those tough questions like how do you handle conflict, what does it mean to go to Juma prayers and that's a priority Like what his family looks like, what his healthy family looks like, because that commonality is what flourished the family that we want. and so, having those deep conversation I think that's what I'm getting from what you were saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing is to bringing family into it, because growing up in my family, if you mentioned somebody to your mom or your parents, like this person is who I'm talking to, you only do that when you're sure that you're gonna marry this person and like you're ready for them to come and ask for the hand, which I think was not the best setup, because you should be able to bring in your family way before that so then that they can go and check out the person for you and kind of do like a whole background check for you. Because the way we did it, my parents only knew about it when my husband came and asked for the hand. But if I would have done it sooner, i think it would have been better. But then at the same time, because we were in similar family circles, i already kind of knew that there wasn't gonna be much of a resistance from the family side.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just kept nodding my head the whole time when you are talking, because that's one thing I always feel like, alhamdulillah, like for myself, i am taking into my kids, inshallah. When they get to that age, i want them, first of all, to take courting very, very seriously, right? so it's not like bring every single person that you are kind of attracted to for me to talk to. I don't want that. But when you are at that age, when you are courting to get married, i want to be able to know that person, tell me about that person, invite them over, because that shows your sincerity and that also shows their sincerity. Then I also I mean investigate, be the FBI, you know, i'll look, you know.
Speaker 2:And I think that is so important because there's this pressure of when you bring a person to the family in our culture it's like set in stone, you know. And then, if that thing doesn't work out, and then you bring another person, hi, my, they thought, go and do no more feed the. It shouldn't be like that. It should be your family, should be the, your comfort zone, your family should be the persons that you bring that individual to, to investigate to, and then sometimes family sees beyond the BS right, because once you are infatuated with the person, you don't see everything. Love is blind, and then you don't see the red flags that your family might be able to spot us. Like creating this boundary of like only. I'll bring all my significant other to the family only when it's set in stone yeah it's not really healthy.
Speaker 2:I think you know that's something that needs to change so I think I'm gonna go from what Bonnie said.
Speaker 3:You kind of already started already what would be one of those, you know, suggestions and advices that you will give to anyone who's in that process, right?
Speaker 1:now, especially, i think, for the sister that had emailed us. Yes, you know he had said she's at that age now where people are constantly telling her like, oh, you missed your chance to do that and all this stuff. What are suggestions and advice for her?
Speaker 2:I will tell you the same thing I will tell myself and any other person. If that isn't the situation, you know yourself, you know your worth. Don't let other people make you feel less than you are. You've worked on yourself, you've spent time with yourself, you gotten yourself to this successful place and if you are healthy emotionally, making yourself be the person that you want to be with like if it showed up in a man work on yourself and, inshallah, by Allah's mercy and Allah's grace, that person will walk into your life. I believe that like attracts, like when you are already, allah will bring that person to your life. So I don't think you should decrease your expectation. I don't think you should be less of a person than you are. I don't think you should sharing yourself into something to appease the masses. No, when you you've worked so hard to be where you are, you deserve where you are and, inshallah, allah will bring someone that matches your status or that's better than you. That is my thing too, for specifically the sister.
Speaker 3:I would say you know, if sometimes people, when they're not practicing a religious and every aspect of your life is based on Allah and his plan and you want to go about even this marriage process based on what Allah has said in his book, and when cultural it comes into a play, they would ask you you've been too picky, you're saying this. Sometimes they even try to convince you out of like, if he doesn't pray right now, he'll pray later. They'll tell you things like that or it's like oh, this is overrated, you don't need this part of physical appearance, it's overrated, it's gonna die off. So these are the type of comments that people will say to people who are in their 30s because they want them to settle. I want you to be mindful. What is that that destination for you is, and if your destination is with Allah and what Allah has planned for you, and I think, like Bonnie said, tie your heart to that and make dua on that.
Speaker 3:And I can't say ignore people, because you are a human being and some days you're able to ignore it. But then the people that are very closer to you are the people that actually say those type of words where you're like you're getting really old, or you're too picky, or you're high, too much in your place and you don't see other people. Why you're not in the community. How else would somebody would notice you? Those type of languages come from people who are literally closer to you that you call family or friends. Whatever that may be is for you. So I can't say ignore that, but I would say create a community of village girls like yourself who are living their life and still very actively looking and interested in finding the right to the spouse and still have that door of opportunity open but figured out for you, where you are content with yourself. Remember that Allah is going to find the right person for you in this time.
Speaker 1:I would say do not feel disheartened and know that Allah's plan has already written everything that would come in your way. And if something is written for you, it will not pass you. And if something isn't written for you, even if you try as hard as you might, you will not get it. So just believe in that and give yourself some comfort that Allah will take care of you. And, like the Habib said, people will always say something. Regardless of whether you're married, whether you're unmarried, you will not be able to please people. And, like Bonnie said, be the best person that you can be and your match will find you.
Speaker 2:I just want to add something really to me that I thought about while we were saying this, just to give like practical advice to right, And I'm going to quote another faith on this. It's a story that I heard. There was this guy and he would go to church every day and he would pray to the statue and he would say, whatever that statue is if it's Jesus, whatever you know, please, please, please, please, help me win a lottery, please, please, please, please, let me win a lottery.
Speaker 2:So he'd go every single day and say, beg like, help me win a lottery, help me win a lottery. And then one day the statue broke, got tired of this guy's plea and broke and said please, please, please, my son buy a lottery ticket. So I say this to say and I take that with everything, not the religious aspect, but that just the common knowledge aspect, with everything that I do, which is, if I want something, i have to position myself in spaces that I would get that thing. And for me, speaking from a personal experience, i've always been a go-getter in everything that I do, including my husband. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:I do believe in what Allah gives you, what Allah gives you when it's meant for you. Like I said previous and I'm not going back on that I'm just saying that you have to be able to step out of your comfort zone, you have to be able to go to the spaces that you meet like-minded people, because even in our deen Allah says you know, i will give you just work for it If you are someone that is religious and you like and I'm not saying suffer. I don't know if this is halal to say. Like I'm not saying masjid is a hookup place, but like, if you're someone that's looking for a person that goes to the masjid all the time, go to the masjid all the time. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, i just feel that way. I'm getting a lot of disagreement.
Speaker 1:I'm getting a lot of disagreement.
Speaker 2:I just feel like, if you're someone that's interested in like readers and not like books, and I'm sure they're going to end up in the library I'm being very, you know, stare at the book, all but, like you know, just spending that time where you find like-minded people not necessarily find like-minded people, but you might increase your chances of finding that person that is like you is, but I, okay. Here's for the counter agreement.
Speaker 3:No, no no, i think. I think I can't speak for this person, but I'm going to try to speak from what it means to be in the Spencer shoes and being a single person shoes. There's nothing worse than hearing It would happen when you don't expect it, and there's nothing worse than hearing. Maybe you have not been putting yourself in the right places, maybe you have not tried hard enough, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe because people sometimes they don't come to you being curious. They come to you judging you and putting so much their own assumption on you. They didn't say what did you try? What worked for you? When was the last time you talked to someone And who is the last person you talked to? What was the process looks like? Instead of being curious and try to understand, listen to understand you, they already came out with what you have not been doing, right?
Speaker 3:And then they always already blaming you for yes, and they always tell you, oh, this, this, this, that, And I would say it's not very helpful. So this, bro, I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart do what you feel is right to you. And if people are telling you the things that I just wanted to tell you, you know that your feelings, your emotion, your experiences are valid and you're okay with that. And when people are on the other side, you know what I mean When the Greece is like they're in that, the other side, they're married and they have the kids, they have that lifestyle that they want and they say, oh, another thing they say is this marriage is overrated.
Speaker 3:This is so much pressure. It's like what you're doing is you're dismissing my emotion, you're devalidating what I'm telling you and how I'm feeling, and you're also not making me feel safe with you when I come to you and talk about my struggles. I know I just started something right now, but that's what I'm saying. So advice is sometimes. I don't think this person needs advice. That's my thing.
Speaker 1:I 100% agree to have a. Sometimes you know as much as people are well intentioned, doesn't? it completely disregards everything, your situation and everything you're going through. But I think what Bonnie was saying earlier is that, yes, make do, but at the end of the day you have to tie your camel. I think that's what they're trying to get at right Not that like it is well intentioned, but tie your camel at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:But they don't know if that person has tied enough camel and the camel did not want to be tied.
Speaker 1:The camel ran away, they still took it and they were like okay, well, allah, i did this. Everything you asked of me I follow every single step, but maybe that is the issue, though Maybe that is the issue. You're saying, yes, i tied my camel. Now, what You know what I mean, like I think, at the heart of it, that's the issue. The issue is that you've tied your camel, but you still have to continue to have that to walk on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you still have to continue to have that to walk on Allah. I mean, this is the bordering on really bad, borderline shiky stuff, so let's not get into it. No, why is it shiky? Because, at the end of the day, you have to realize the magnificence of Allah, that He's above you and above everything. So even when you are asking to add, there's a level of adab that we're supposed to have, there's a whole manner of going about it. So when you ask, allah is not entitled to give it to you. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You are the slave, sorry, the way, He said that it was kind of like you are the slave?
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is true. So it's not as if you're asking the president and saying, okay, you know, mr President, you know I did this, i did this and I completed all of your requirements that you've given me, but I'm still not promoted. You know what I mean. But this is a human you're asking of, but when Allah, when you're asking Allah, this whole kingdom is His. You understand, you can say I can. He doesn't give it to you.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. But I think can I just ask you something And you can jump off of that.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'll try to remember.
Speaker 2:So I guess my question is because I do understand what you're saying. I do understand when, because, yes, you know, i bought my lottery ticket. I did tie my camel. And what happens? You're telling me to buy a lottery ticket, you're telling me to tie my camel. Now what? Like I have done that. You're talking to me like I haven't done that, i didn't know to do that. Or I'm telling you to go to find like-minded places in the library or the mustards. right, i've done that. So when someone asks for advice, like this lady did, what is the most appropriate yet effective advice you would give to someone like that, instead of saying like I can't give you because you probably have done everything without offending the other person or that person, thinking that you are assuming they didn't do certain things, if that makes sense, so like what would be the most effective, actionable, appropriate advice that one could give?
Speaker 3:First, i have to say I don't know this person and what they have tried. I'm only saying, being the single person here, what I've heard been said to me You're such a therapist, okay, so the advice that person needs to be heard is that that person has to have that time with Allah. When you make the right readings happens One Allah can give you right away. Second, allah says this is not the right time And then, third, allah is going to give it to you later. Or also, accepting the aspect of marriage might not be the right thing. I think that grieving that process is what's missing. And then also another thing is that people need to stop shaming single girls, even if they're in 30s, whatever the age they're at, why they're single. Because you are asking why they're single now. What do you try? What can I do?
Speaker 1:to help you.
Speaker 3:Am I helping you as your family, as your friends, to arrange this and maybe have a dinner and invite a single guy over? Or am I doing actively helping you on the other side, besides telling you, what have you been doing? Have you applied for the job? Have you called that place? Have you went online? Have you talked to the chef? Have you? I'm doing all the work And then I'm the top of that. You're coming back to shaming of how much I'm not doing.
Speaker 2:If someone, let's say, for example, they say, hey, i have this because I know that could be also offensive. If I have this friend of that, single and you're single, can I invite you guys all for dinner? But is being single like a good old need required? You know what I mean. Because, like, is that okay to do? Do you understand what my question is? I have two single friends. Let me get them in a room in a house with all of us together, a room together in the house with all of us together. Let's have dinner, and is that okay? Or are you putting two of them in a very uncomfortable situation?
Speaker 3:I think it depends on the person, okay, it depends on your friend, it depends on your intention and not just finding the only single person and thinking they're going to make a magical relationship happen, versus, like, i know her personality and I kind of understand this guy's personality, did they match? Would they vibing? If they hadn't vibed, like okay, because a lot of things that would people do that happened to me is they find any single available person And then they're like Oh, you two are single, Maybe you guys should meet for coffee.
Speaker 2:Oh, how's it going? Are you guys?
Speaker 3:are in love yet.
Speaker 2:When is the?
Speaker 3:wedding day. It was like no, we have total opposite personalities.
Speaker 2:With all the red flags. Yes, i apologize very greatly.
Speaker 3:Not just you trust me, but go ahead and share it.
Speaker 1:So I really want to go back to what you said earlier about grieving. Marriage might not be an option or marriage might not be what happens for you. Can we kind of just talk about that And I want to get your opinion around that.
Speaker 3:Personal opinion or therapy opinion?
Speaker 2:personal opinion, and both Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I would say personal opinion. I think I have been working on grieving that. Okay, i would say that I have been working on that and be mindful about, if it doesn't happen, what now? and how do I navigate my life and what should I do next? And the how do I comfort? the thing is that, personally, how do I comfort my parents who are worried about me being single, not having the family or not having grandchildren? But to at the end of the day, i always say remember story of a youth, remember of all the prophets who are struggled, not everything worked out.
Speaker 3:I keep bringing back to that for people in my life and to myself, and I would say that I'm only here to serve Allah. Like you said earlier, i'm the slave of Allah. I'm here on this earth to serve him. If Allah decided this is what he wants from me, he'll make it happen. And someone once said to me he said if your husband are meant to be with you, allah will bring you from the end of the earth to where you are. Thanks, that type of clear, concise belief, with no doubt in it, and that's the thing that needs to be happening. How do you grieve it? It might not happen. You talk about it in therapy. You talk about what your therapist saying look, i feel that I have the strong desire of getting married, having family. This has been my success, according to what I have believed in my life and having to go through this emotional process and being accepting of it. It might not happen right away, but eventually the work has to happen, with yourself saying you know what, it's okay And that could be.
Speaker 1:That could be the test of it all. Right, the test for you might be that that your desire to get married and maybe Allah has the wisdom that this might not be the best thing for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. The thing is that you know in your bottom of heart if Allah knows, if you think Allah has better thing for you. You know, I honestly do know Allah has better thing for me, But I also know that if Allah has put this desire in my heart and the desire has been ignited from the day that I realized that I wanted to get married, and it has continues to grow It will be fulfilled. It will be fulfilled right. And then that's the belief, the hope, and that's the hope that you're supposed to have with your du'a, right? You have to be hopeful When you make du'a. You have to be hopeful And that's how you know that your du'a will come true.
Speaker 3:But what do you do in the meantime? What is so? your family, your society, your friends, the things that makes you question those clear, concise, that you have with Allah? That's the thing that you need help with. Like, how do I be okay And still wait for Allah to do the things that I need to do and still time my camel and then be okay with this process and other people around you have to say you know what?
Speaker 1:she's fine And be careful of hopelessness and despairing and just saying I've been doing du'a, i've been doing this, but clearly he's not working out, and just kind of going to the opposite extreme too, of saying maybe it's not even worth it, maybe doing du'a praying and all this stuff isn't worth it, absolutely Yeah, may Allah protect us from that.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I think this conversation has been very incredible And this girl we really appreciate her for sending us emails on her experiences And this is definitely that space of validation for her and for any other individuals that are who are in this similar situation. We really definitely love other people to also send us more emails and more questions, specifically on whatever has to do with the relationship aspect of it. I think it's been a great conversation. This is a difficult conversation, so yeah, ladies,