What Makes a Marriage Work? Insights from Jarai's Journey

Imagine walking down the aisle at a young age with no real expectations for your future marriage. This is the reality for our guest, Jarai, who joins us to share her 16-year journey through love, compromise, and patience. From learning to understand her partner's background and values, to navigating societal pressures and discovering her non-negotiables, Jarai gives us an intimate look into her experiences.

How do you keep a marriage strong and healthy for over a decade? Jarai and her husband reveal their secret - open communication. They delve into the practice of writing out their feelings and maintaining an ongoing dialogue to resolve conflicts. They also emphasize focusing on Allah's pleasure and making beneficial compromises. But what happens when societal pressures start to take a toll on your relationship? Jarai gives us insightful advice on how to manage these pressures, adjust our expectations, and concentrate on finding solutions.

In an era where social media narratives can profoundly impact relationships, we explore the importance of premarital counselling and understanding the concept of Rahmat - a sense of mercy and understanding in a relationship. Jarai shares how this sense of mercy has been a cornerstone in her marriage, helping minimise negative interactions and fostering understanding. This episode is packed with wisdom and insights that will leave you reflecting on your perceptions of love, marriage, and everything that lies in between. Get ready to tune in and be inspired.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:03

As-salamu alaikum, welcome to difficult conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education. As-salamu alaikum everybody, welcome back to another amazing episode. We are sitting down today with Jarai, who is a mother of two, she's been married for 16 years and who is a nurse professionally. We invited her here today to get her perspective and wisdom on marriage. Would you like to add anything else?

Speaker 3: 0:35

Thank you for inviting me and introducing me. I'm definitely a person that I would say would like to make sure people are happy around me, and I would try my best to make sure I do that and also beyond that above all, make sure whatever you're doing or I'm doing is pleasing to Allah. That's just a brief description of how things helped me or my view of how I handle things around me.

Speaker 4: 1:04

And masha'Allah. That's really beautiful. One thing I wanted to add was this specific episode is about marriage, what people's perspectives are on it. Our whole season has been about relationships and how people navigate relationships, either from within or outside of it. I wanted to ask you when you were a kid what was your ideal relationship like To?

Speaker 3: 1:26

be honest, growing up, what I knew about marriage is what I lived, say in my mom, say in my aunties and my surrounding. Beyond that, I was just expecting that I would be married, I would be with someone, I would have kids, and never thought beyond that.

Speaker 5: 1:45

I know for a lot of girls that they have criteria, so they're looking for their husbands and prior to you meeting your husband, is there something that you're like? If he has, this would be nice to have as a husband.

Speaker 3: 1:58

The only one thing that I remembered that growing up. So I'm tall and for some reason, the only thing that I was focusing on was I want someone that's taller than me, because, it was a little bit, I was one of the tallest among my friends and they get to wear high heels and things like that and I'm not going to wear it because I don't want to be taller than someone. If I meet someone or things like that, I'm going to be taller than them. Now that I think about it, it's funny. Specifically, I don't think I had any of those criteria. This is what I want. I get married when I was 20 or 18. I can't even recall.

Speaker 5: 2:40

I didn't know, it was so weird, though.

Speaker 3: 2:42

At that time, honestly, because I was going to school and I wanted to make sure I finished my studies before I get married. And yeah, that was one of the things I would say.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Did anybody in your family or close circle? Have you guys ever had a conversation about relationships or what to look for, or?

Speaker 3: 3:00

anything like that, not really. I have seven siblings. I'm the youngest of seven, so most of them had gone abroad, what my parents usually did. Once we do high school they will send you abroad to do your own high education, to go to university, and I had brothers around me. I grew up with boys, so my sisters were gone when I was growing up and my mom, because I was the youngest, so she was getting really older, so I never really had that discussion about marriage or what to expect. I guess I grew up a little bit like a tomboy. I was just playing around with my brothers.

Speaker 5: 3:42

Yeah, so when you come to the relationship that you observe whether it's your parents, whether it's your aunties, whether any of those relationships what are something that you felt like you notice in that relationship, that you feel like in the future. I want to have that in my relationship as well.

Speaker 4: 3:58

Or if it wasn't even consciously, like now, that you realize oh, you're seeing it in your own relationship. Now Patience. Can you elaborate on that?

Speaker 3: 4:08

And this is from my mom. She went through her own and I did observe a certain hardship that she went through with my father. She was just there and she was patient and kind. Yeah, just the patience. And even with some of my aunties thinking about it, I'm not sure if it's because of societal expectation. That's what you have to do. Maybe that's why they did it, but majoritarily they're like just I'm going to be patient through my struggles and it will get better.

Speaker 2: 4:41

A lot of people. They say that you tend to observe your parents and then, now that you have your own life, are you noticing certain habits of yours or things that you do in your relationship that you can say, oh, my parents did this, or I observed people in my circle do this, and was that a good thing?

Speaker 3: 5:03

I feel like I had to learn how to be a married woman. When I was married, what I observed. I carried that into my marriage and I realized that it was not working. What helped me was to relearn about what my Lord expect of me and what marriage is in reality. So I think one of the biggest things that maybe I can elaborate on this is that we're all product of what we've seen, but then we don't take the time to go check and say, okay, what are my two expectations? What should I be doing other than what I have seen?

Speaker 5: 5:48

And also what society expect you to be as a wife versus the relationship that you're in. Right, because you and your husband are both coming from a different background whether it's family background, whether it's cultural background, it doesn't matter. But at the end of the day it's two different individuals coming together with a different type of expectation. What is supposed to be whether subconscious thought, where you've seen something that you didn't even know you were doing and he's probably doing the same thing, and now that you're in it, how do you navigate that aspect of the relationship itself? And before we even get to that, I want to hear the romance a little bit, the beginning. So we'll get to that type of conversation because we're starting a little bit. But I want to know how do you guys met? Was it a range? Was it family introductions? Just tell us a little bit about the whole process of how you and your husband met.

Speaker 3: 6:42

So our story is very funny, apparently so this is from his mom. My mom's knows each other and apparently when what I heard to start off, because that's when he started when I was, I think, six years old my husband and his mom came to visit us and his mom said that when they came, I greeted them and then I was playing outside and said, oh, we'll call your mom. And then I went to call my mom to come over and I told my mom oh, by the way, someone is here to see you with my husband. Okay, not that I recall any of that.

Speaker 3: 7:25

She told us that. She told me that and brief. After that I didn't really know him. Our families know each other and things like that but the way he started is that I believe his mom probably also reminded him that, oh, this person, I've not taught about them, but it's up to you. That's what he told me and he inquired about me. I need his sister he inquired me about at that time was in Guinea. I was back home. Okay.

Speaker 3: 7:56

And he was here in the US, so he's inquired about me about to his sister and then got my number and called me. Then we started just talking. I knew him barely or I wouldn't say that much, but we started just talking. He said Okay, this is my intention. We just want to get to know each other and see if this is something we can work out. That's how he started at the beginning. For some reason, I just had this feeling that this is the right person. You know how, I don't know if you put. You had that feeling that you know what this is actually the person I belonged to.

Speaker 3: 8:32

I had that deep feeling initially, regardless that I had some kind of love or that would just have feeling.

Speaker 5: 8:39

You feel at ease with him.

Speaker 3: 8:42

Yeah, so that's how we started and then continued talking, getting to know each other, and I went to France to do my studies, because that was right after high school, and my parents sent me to France to do my studies and he came and visited me once and we saw, okay, you know what? This is something we really want to move forward with, and that's how we kind of started.

Speaker 5: 9:07

That is definitely so good it's the fact that you knew at six years old this person is going to be your husband one day. I love it. That's from.

Speaker 3: 9:13

Allah. We know, as Muslims, that our destiny is written already. And whatever happens, as long as you have the strong belief that you know what it is happening because of Allah, this is for my Lord, and today, when I sit and think about it, I say you know what? It's a lot, I did everything. Absolutely. I did nothing. Yeah, you just exist. I was just there as an instrument. Yeah, you're like, I'm existing and there you go yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5: 9:41

What was the process like? How long before you guys decided, okay, it's time for us to get married and involve the family? And to this conversation.

Speaker 3: 9:50

When we started talking. We did because you do have to let the parents know to make sure that you guys are not doing anything wrong. Have the permission to talk. So when we started I did tell my mom okay, he has the intention to talk about marriage. Is that okay to talk to him? And he also did let his family know. But I think we waited about a few months before we told I don't remember because we didn't want them to be just pushy now Because I know that family members really did it, one it when it happens, especially his mom.

Speaker 3: 10:23

I think we waited a few months before we told his mom. I told my mom to get permission to talk to him, but we waited a few months before we let them know not to get pressured.

Speaker 5: 10:34

You basically had to talk to him for a little bit to see how you feel about him and you had to go in to talk to your mom whether you guys want to continue talking. And I like how you said the fact that you didn't want to involve a lot of family members so they don't emotionally attach to the relationship itself, Because sometimes they have their attachment how this should work out and then it doesn't work out and they are all devastated at the same time. And I like how that you guys are carefully took the time to make sure that this kind of implant the right way and the correct way which is religiously. That's what we're supposed to do you talk to someone for a little bit and then make sure that your families are involved right away so they're involved in that whole process. But I really appreciate you sharing that. And how long before you guys have the engagement in the wedding.

Speaker 3: 11:23

We started talking in 2006. Because I remember that and then we got married in 2007. Okay, yeah. I would say less than a year, because I think we started talking because I traveled to France in September of 2006. And then we started, I think, around the summer of 2006. And by the summer of 2007 we got married.

Speaker 2: 11:47

Were there conditions on your part? Did you want to finish your studies first, or how was that conversation?

Speaker 4: 11:54

To be honest, based on the conversation I had with him, I knew he was someone that values education very well, so it wasn't a concern to me because I knew I was going to have that support to finish my studies, when you guys were having that conversation over the phone and getting to know each other, after you guys had the permission from your mom, if you recall what were some of the questions that you feel like you were asking that were very important to you and that kind of helped you now make that decision, saying, like we said, because I had that conversation with him about education, I wasn't worried about my own education and how if I was gonna have that support.

Speaker 3: 12:33

At this time, I don't really recall. I just felt that it was just based on our interactions or our discussions, that you just know certain things, like whenever we were talking, say, oh, like he told me, I came to America I made sure I just pushed through my studies so I can get my degree, things like that, so that gave you that. Oh, you know what he likes education he's. So it was just my own conclusion. I don't think I really went into asking him specific questions otherwise. Maybe I just don't recall, but it was just based on our exchange, just where you draw some conclusions that okay, this is the how and that's to get to know each other.

Speaker 4: 13:13

Do you feel like people should upfront? Because there's two groups when it comes to this? People that say, like me, I feel like people should ask outright questions and say, hey, what is your view on this, what do you think of this, how do you prioritize this, and so on and so forth. And then there are some people that say, no, you shouldn't ask upfront questions because that person might give you the answer you want to hear. Where do you stand on that?

Speaker 3: 13:37

To be honest, I feel like you shouldn't have specific questions, because that makes it hard, because then you're putting yourself in a bubble. Marriage is not that. There is so much more than, oh, this person. I want to know this.

Speaker 3: 13:52

That's going to determine what I'm going to go with them because you're never going to find that person and you're never really going to know who is who until you truly live with them. So if there are certain things that, okay, I cannot leave at all with this person, if I know this, I'll say you know what? Ask this work, because then that's going to be determining you staying together. But if it's something you can work around, so you're non-negotiable.

Speaker 4: 14:24

So you should ask.

Speaker 3: 14:25

Yeah, I think you're non-negotiable. You should ask. It's a fair thing to do.

Speaker 2: 14:29

So for you specifically, were there things that you felt were non-negotiable for you, and how did you navigate that post marriage?

Speaker 3: 14:39

I don't think I had any. I felt like I was just open.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Do you think that it helped the fact that you guys ran in similar circles and your families knew each other? You knew this person's background a little bit, I think that helped a lot.

Speaker 3: 14:54

That helped a lot me not asking too many questions because I knew the background and I didn't knew the personality completely, but I knew the background and I know a lot of time. That's all saying that you can judge someone based on health and to our age sometime. Yeah, that's what I took.

Speaker 4: 15:16

I want to just push back a little bit because I think you did have negotiables. They were just answered before you even asked about them, because you knew the family and you knew the circle and you knew the values of that environment. So from knowing you I know that, like, religion is very important to you and I feel like that would have been a non-negotiable if that was it.

Speaker 3: 15:39

I grew up in an environment where we were really liberal about religion and it was a checklist for me at that time. I have to be honest, because at that, time I did not know the value of it. All I knew is that I wanted my parents, say the one, him, to be Muslim.

Speaker 3: 15:59

That's a check for them. But for me personally, I didn't know, and that's because I so I went to a Catholic school. That's what my parent best thought. That is good for your education, and so I mingled with a lot of religions and all those kind of things, so it made me really just open and not even think about the fact that, oh, that I be a Muslim. But Alhamdulillah, I'm thankful to Allah, those ideologies didn't affect me and I was able to get Muslim husband, alhamdulillah. But I just was trying to the environment I was in. It wasn't made as a Muslim. That's why I have a lot of friends that actually ended up in marriages where they're non-Muslims.

Speaker 2: 16:43

When did that shift happen for you in terms of the Dean and it seemed like you had coming back to the Dean season. Was that after you guys got married, after you left that environment? How was that?

Speaker 3: 16:56

After we get married, and that was when we moved in Minnesota in 2016 okay, so you've been married for a while what was the turning point? Yeah the turning point was struggles. To be honest, I had this mentality of when I want something, I get it, and when we get a cab, it done. Gotta get done my way, and I got a pushback on that oh, you were being challenged by Allah by Allah, alhamdulillah, and through your husband, my husband.

Speaker 3: 17:36

So then I started realizing okay, and I remember, just one night I woke up at night and I went downstairs and I just started praying to Allah, said yallah, help me get close to you, help me get close to you. And that was you in Minnesota, I really I remember.

Speaker 5: 17:52

And for some reason, after that, things just started changing can you give us a little bit of examples of what was going on at that point of your life in the best way you can be able to share? Yeah, to be honest.

Speaker 3: 18:05

Like I said, it's just decision-making sometime or I think a lot of it too. To be honest, it was my emotions. I was a very emotional person still I am. I don't think I've found ways to navigate around it, but my emotions were really to the point that I lose rationality when I don't get what I want okay and I am really thankful for my husband that he was able to be patient with me through that to help me understand.

Speaker 3: 18:37

But it's just those kinds of things I want us to do this. Oh no, by the way, I don't have time to do that today. Oh, is that more important than me? Those kind of jumping to conclusions. I jump into conclusions like, okay, I'm not looking at the way he's thinking, I'm just wanting what I want, or the way he's gonna make him feel it's just about what I want. And honestly, now that I think about it, I don't know. I really knew what marriage meant at that time. I don't think how to be a wife until halfway to my marriage.

Speaker 5: 19:14

I think in that point you got married young too. I mean, based on the conversation that we're just talking about and I'm going to bring in a little bit of psychology into it that you're, as far as your developmental stage is not really in that level from what you're sharing again, is you're being challenged by somebody else's emotions, not just yours anymore. You have to keep somebody else in mind. Okay, if I want something, is it just me, by yourself, or now I have to consider this person too. What does he have going for himself? The black and white thinking this or that, and I think a lot of time. That's where the crack of marriage happens for a lot of people sticking through that moment and being able to express emotionally, saying I feel, when you don't spend enough time with me, that I am not important to you, like having those language of new draw conclusions exactly most of the time not real it's just your mind doing it to you yeah, that I've realized.

Speaker 2: 20:15

How are you guys able to?

Speaker 3: 20:16

work. I think compromising and that's from me. I had to learn to compromise, which I did not at the beginning, and I guess just learning to listen and look at things through his lens or put myself in his shoes, that kind of started helping me For him. He would listen, sometimes he would leave me alone, he was like just to give me the time to just observe. And then at first I would think, oh, he doesn't care, that's why, otherwise he'll be coming to me right now. But now that I know, based on what I've learned Islamically in marriage and how to handle conflicts and things like that, I have learned that you know what, whenever there is a time of tensions, it's better to stay away from each other. Let the water flow and cool down.

Speaker 4: 21:10

Then talk about it. I left that because, for me specifically, I'm learning that initially, when I first got married, I was like let's talk about it now. Like I said earlier, I'm the person that we need to process. Now. I'm feeling these things. You need to sit there and receive all these feelings and then you have to respond back, and I just receive them, but respond like back to every single point that I made point A, point B I realized very early on that I was projecting a lot. Like you said, I was projecting like my own insecurities into the conversation or the debate or the issues. And then I was also projecting what I saw in movies not in real life, in movies of the husband just being like oh, it's my fault, I'm sorry, and then coming in and just taking ownership about everything all the time. Or in talk shows where you hear the wife is always right and how did you last this long? Yes, ma'am, no, ma'am.

Speaker 1: 22:11

And I was like, oh, she's not doing any of those things.

Speaker 5: 22:15

So he must not love me, I must not be important.

Speaker 4: 22:19

You know, you learn that everybody has different communication skills, everybody has different processing skills, everybody has different timing and knowing that even just in the marriage and developing that in the marriage we understand people that are in my friend's zone even better. But it was work and I feel like most people don't talk about that. People fight not necessarily just because of the issues that they're having, but because of their communication skills and because of other things that they're bringing into the conversation. That is not even part of the issue I wanted to ask you. They say that the first seven years of your marriage is not really marriage. It's a trial basis, as if you have a return receipt or something.

Speaker 4: 23:05

What do you feel like you have a set for, besides the compromising and all the lessons that you've learned? What do you feel like were the best things that you did in the first seven years of your marriage and then not such a great things that you learn from and that you tweaked now and that I'm about to meet the seven years soon? Nobody has a return receipt.

Speaker 3: 23:29

Like I said, I didn't really learn also to be a good wife until I was really or what is supposed to be a wife Islamically, until I was halfway through my marriage, and I think I would have done many things differently. And the one thing that I will just say outright is that realizing that whatever you're doing it for Allah to get rewarded by Allah, I did not. I'm here for Allah and doing it for Allah, that will take away so much stress and so much assumption that you might be making or just don't expect anything in return, because, guess what, you're not doing it for that person and that, in turn, will make that person actually allow, make that person happy.

Speaker 5: 24:17

Please with you. You would also alleviate yourself from that pressure. Yeah so much.

Speaker 3: 24:23

You just don't realize, because if you don't realize that, you feel like you're always doing and you're expecting. Okay, what is he going to do? How is he going to respond? How am I going to get? How is he going to feel about this? You still have to think about those words At the end. If you just see Allah above all, it makes it so much easier and I think for me to help me the first seven years I did not have that. I was just thinking I would say seven years because we moved in Minnesota, 2016. Seven years ago.

Speaker 3: 24:52

So halfway through, that's the main difference I would say it would have cost, could have helped me and go through so much less stress and torturing myself, because I don't think I tortured him, I tortured myself.

Speaker 2: 25:07

I think that's a huge thing, like for even for me, like I tend to live in my head a lot and so you expect this person to know what you're thinking and they don't even know what you're going through half of the time. And I think the point that you brought about putting Allah first is so huge. It relieves a lot of pressure. And also, have you heard of the triangle concept, where you have the wife and the husband on the bottom corners of the triangle and then Allah at top? Then the more you guys get closer to Allah, the more you guys get closer together as well? What would you say are one of the things that I know you had said that you coming back to Allah were a lot of struggles and stuff like that. Is there one specific event that you can pinpoint that brought you back to Allah swt, or is it just a combination of a lot of things?

Speaker 3: 25:58

You know, that was one thing. I remember it was an issue and it was just something that, okay, this is important to you, but for me I say it as okay, it's okay, it's not a big deal to me. And one specific thing. So my husband he's really he's a, I would say, clean prick. He likes everything very clean, neat and all that. And I am the kind that you know what, I like it clean, but I would let it get dirty and I clean it. I don't mind it. And at the beginning I was just like, oh, he's just too much Things like that.

Speaker 3: 26:29

I remember one event that happened and I didn't expect it to be that far, that I was going to work. I was to work night shift, so we don't have to put the kids to daycare. So I used to work Friday night, saturday night, sunday night, and he works Monday to Friday. He came back home, I was ready to go out and then he asked me oh, did the kids take a shower? I said, oh, no, they did not. And I was just ready to leave. I said, okay, that day I guess he had probably given me a lot of graces in the past.

Speaker 3: 26:57

That day he just said you know what? I'm really tired today. I want the kids to be showered so I don't have to do it. And that day I was like no. I said he was like no, he was like you will not go to work until it is done. So I guess, at that point I didn't realize and I was really mad, of course, and it was a big tuff, tuff, tuff, so I didn't see it coming. And I guess what happened that day is that he has probably been just ignoring or accepting or just letting it go.

Speaker 1: 27:32

And that day, just you know what, it is so strong and I'm just not going to take it anymore.

Speaker 3: 27:38

So that's one of the things, and now I realize you know what, at the end, the main thing is you have to find what is pleasing and help each other towards that. Don't see it as a difference, see it as an opportunity, and that's what I have learned to do. I will make sure whatever you know he likes or thinks, do it because at the end, you're doing it for your Lord first, because you're getting rewarded for doing it. Then he's happy, alhamdulillah. That's one of the things I would say we struggle a little bit with, because I'm just like I'm okay. This is the kids they did. Okay, just let it go.

Speaker 4: 28:19

No, get a kidney now I'm trying to play my own life into it. And when me and my husband first got married because I grew up with a very type A personality and that wanted everything very clean, very organized. If anything was out of order, it was a thing. So when we first got married, I was that person. I was like everything has to be clean and I was obsessing. And she's like the golden boy of his family, never touched anything, never cleared. So I was always on his case of you have to clean. I realized for me it was easier to just let it go.

Speaker 4: 28:59

And that compromise aspect Okay, you don't see it. Obviously this is not something that's important to you. There's something that technically, I don't even like to do. I'm just doing it because it's so drilled into me. So, bringing our personalities closer and being like do you want to fight about this or do you want to work together, instead of being resentful about him not doing something and consciously until I tell him, to just tell him, be like hey, this is something important to do for me, can you do it? One thing I paid attention in your conversation was that your husband was very direct in saying hey, this is very important to me. I like this clean. I want the kids showered and for you to be like okay, this is very important to him. I'm going to do it for the sake of Allah. This is going to make him happy. Therefore, there's no conflict in our house.

Speaker 5: 29:45

That's one way of resolving a conflict while getting bonus points from Allah.

Speaker 4: 29:49

That's awesome, so I wanted to ask in addition to that, what are other ways to maintain a strong and healthy relationship that you think worked for you guys?

Speaker 3: 30:01

I think open communication and I will just elaborate on this because I did not have that at the beginning I feel like I was not more of a dialogue, I was more of a showing what and what or what I want or things like that. Like I remember I used to just one strategy of communication that I would say I'm just gonna throw this into. It is sometimes it's not everything that has to be said, I guess find the right way of communicating with the person. Everybody's different. What I've found that worked for me is just writing and I express myself a lot better and then I read myself before sending. That sometimes has helped us not having to, because when you're doing face to face, emotions get involved and you misinterpret sometimes things and then you start just wanting to defend yourself. So what I've realized has helped me keep an open communication. Certain times I will just write him, he will write me back and then we get it solved and we don't talk about it again.

Speaker 3: 31:11

Wow. To be honest, and at the beginning I used to use it the wrong way, because I used to use it to just vent it out and things like that.

Speaker 3: 31:20

But I came down to the conclusions. I can still use this a different way to help us, more constructive way, and that has helped a lot. So when we come together, instead of talking about our differences, let's be happy, let's talk about our day, let's talk about funny stuff, let's just sort of connect. I feel like that's an aspect that can help. If, of course, the partner is okay with things like that. You have to check and make sure you know what this is, something they are comfortable with.

Speaker 5: 31:47

I've noticed that when you come to communication with men I can't generalize all men, but venting is very confusing for their brain to process it because their brain is somehow is black and white. If you are very constructive about how you communicate your point, you have like point one, point two, point three. I need these three things to be worked through and figured out. They're like okay, I know what to do one, two, three, check but if there's story and examples and very elaborate, it's so hard for them to listen to and follow you and they get confused.

Speaker 5: 32:24

And sometimes I look at people, men in general your face look like you're not listening to me, because I feel like you probably went to your lab and got lost there and stuck there and not hear what I'm saying. So I like how you said that, because you took the time to process your emotion and how it made you feel and so you communicated based on how your husband is going to be receptive to what you have to say and which is clear communication. It sounds very professional but clear communication and it resonates for him.

Speaker 3: 32:58

Marriage is a job. It's a full time job and we don't realize we go and get all these degrees to go work and if we don't have those degrees, you don't get qualified and I feel like marriage is the same thing. Honestly, one of the things I would advise anybody that's thinking about getting married is to take classes about marriage, know your rights, know what is expected of you before and probably take it together to make sure you guys are on the same page.

Speaker 3: 33:30

They even do the same thing Exactly. We take degree for everything, otherwise you're not qualified. So literally for you to be married, qualified I like that I'm going to use that I use the hot oil to marry me. Let's make sure you run the method. We do it on everything.

Speaker 5: 33:49

So why?

Speaker 3: 33:49

not marriage, and that's why I feel like some of them, because we just think marriage is just two people coming together. Okay, just let's live together. Now it's so much more complex because guess what Work? You go to work, you leave it there and then it's done. But this is something you leave, this is your life.

Speaker 5: 34:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:05

I said earlier that you are a mother of two, with all the other challenges just between you and your husband. What extra challenge do kids bring into the mix, and how have you and your husband navigated that?

Speaker 3: 34:19

When kids come in. For me, I felt like it was something that actually brought us together because we knew what we wanted. That's what we wanted. It only becomes a challenge when you make it a challenge. That's how I see it. When you have a newborn, it's not a challenge, that's a newborn. They have needs. Each of you just have to come together and know what you're going to do to help each other. To make it easy. Of course you're not going to sleep. It's going to be tiring. Of course you're going to have to be running up and down. One thing I know we did that worked for us is that we knew we don't want to put our kids to a daycare. We work out our schedules. Was it a challenge that? Yeah, we didn't spend time together because he works Monday to Friday and I work Friday, saturday, sunday. Of course, because of society and the routine, most families only do things based on the schedule Friday, saturday, sunday or Saturday Sunday Guess what? That's society's expectation. You don't have to do it.

Speaker 5: 35:19

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 35:20

You can make it during the week when both of you have time, exactly For me. I feel like we make the challenges ourselves because at the end, you can just make it not a challenge but something you guys can work together.

Speaker 2: 35:34

That's huge. Managing societal factors and raising a family is something that puts strain on a lot of marriages. Because you get into the idea of keeping up with everybody else. Your kids are in extracurriculars. Why aren't your kids in extracurriculars? And stuff like that. I really like how you pointed out and said you have to do what's right for you too, because at the end of the day, it's your life, and I used to do that, honestly, I used to do that.

Speaker 3: 35:59

I have friends. I go to work. Oh, this weekend we did this and this. Oh, I have other people. We traveled here, we had this vacation, we had this, and then I'll come. Oh, can we go here?

Speaker 5: 36:12

Yeah, can we do this. It affects you.

Speaker 3: 36:15

It affects you. You think about it. Okay, what makes you really happy, what makes your husband happy? Yeah, it's not just doing that and it's just finding what both of you like. My husband, he doesn't like to go out that much, and I've realized that. So we have some good family time at home.

Speaker 5: 36:32

Yeah, I was telling someone recently what the effect that other people have on you, and this individual also single, and they want to get married, and the marriage thing is just over here for them, in their front, thinking every day, and I said I think it's best for you to minimize how much you spend with your married friends, because they're constantly triggering you, they're constantly reminding you what you don't have, they constantly make you feel like less than.

Speaker 5: 36:57

It's not that they're doing it, but your observation of it is making you feel that way. And so you need to decide what works for you based on where you are right now in your life, versus how they have this lifestyle that you want and you're asking yourself why it's not happening for you. And you're also asking a lot why it's not happening for you, and that's even harder because we don't ask a lot why we asked just to help me and make it easy for this process. And so what you say about you realize that I'm not going to do what society does to my marriage. I'm going to figure out what works for us based on our life, our relationship, exactly. So that's very deep and I hope people resonate to that because sometimes we do the Jonas.

Speaker 2: 37:39

Yep, it's so hard to be.

Speaker 5: 37:43

It's hurting marriages. I feel like it's putting a lot of people in debt. Yeah, and emotionally also. Emotional debts happens because you're constantly minimizing how much is given to you, when you constantly look at what you don't have. I'm glad you brought that up.

Speaker 4: 37:57

I'm sorry. I'm just gonna take us a little bit back to what you were saying earlier about writing down your emotions and sending it and that communication. It sounds so helpful. I just wonder, because when you're writing that your manager, your own emotions and you're writing it down, and then you're writing it down in a way that he will perceive it right and he will understand it, how do you receive the message that you get back? And I ask, because I'm guilty Sometimes when my husband sends me a message that is, oh, I don't really like how this went down or how it's whatever, and I'll just be like I read it in a cap, like all caps in my head.

Speaker 4: 38:35

And he might have just said it like hey, can, whatever, and it's not that big of a, when he comes home I'm ready for I have got my point A, point B, point. C, my answers and this, and that he was just asking your question. Man, can you calm down? So I guess, in a way, my question is maybe not just for the audience, but for me too how do you receive his record and critiques and back to you after you send yours or before you send yours?

Speaker 3: 39:01

It depends on how you wrote it. You have to like the same way you write an email, probably to your boss and things like that.

Speaker 3: 39:08

You have to find strategies on how to send your message without pointing a guilt or criticizing and a lot of time when sometime it gets perceived. You know your intention and sometimes people will not read your intention to the message. So if I sense that he perceived it differently, I just apologize right away. I say you know what. I'm sorry, that's not intended and we can talk about it later, but I'm sorry he made you feel that way. So I shut it there.

Speaker 5: 39:39

What if you receive it differently? How do you handle it?

Speaker 3: 39:42

How do I handle it? It's the same way, honestly. I will just think through it Sometime. I will just not respond and then I will try to think through it again and at the end I'll be like you know what? The whole intention for this is to solve a problem, so I'm not going to make one. I'm just going to see that his intention was well and just look at even there's an atom of front of find something in my head that he did it for a good reason, like he didn't intend to just throw something on me or hurt me or something like that, and I just hold on to that.

Speaker 5: 40:20

You're better than me.

Speaker 4: 40:23

I've brought this story up a couple of times. Before me and my husband got married, we both went to Massacne in Chicago and one of the lectures that I attended that I literally just it's glued to my head is about Rahmat and how you should have Rahmat whenever you're experiencing anything within your marriage and within your relationship, and how, even if something is overt or feels obvious like this, he's mad and he is whatever, giving that person the benefit of the doubt to what they are saying versus what you're receiving, because you know who they are, you know who you're married versus. Sometimes people don't process things and don't say things the way they mean to, especially when emotions are involved. Or even, let's say, he meant to wash the dishes and left the dishes in the sink and this is the 50th time you've told them to wash the dishes and having Rahmat.

Speaker 4: 41:21

Like maybe I didn't explain, like maybe trying to explain it to them excuse and yeah, and that's one of those things that I always hold on to. Obviously, it fails me sometimes and I forget about it conveniently. But yeah, having Rahmat in when we can, in anything that they do, that way it minimizes the negative interactions that you guys have and when you're always moving from a space of mercy and from a space of just hoping to understand the other person, even though, like you said, it's working. People should get a degree before they get married, maybe a degree on marriage before they get married. But it makes sense, you know, when you're just pumping positive energy and positivity in every single dialogue, every single interaction, every single conflict, it sounds very you're doing it for them.

Speaker 3: 42:15

That's all you're doing it for and for yourself at the end, you know what you would want to get rewarded like.

Speaker 5: 42:22

you're not doing it for them, I think that level of mindset that you have now, thinking that you're doing a lot of the things that you're doing for the sake of Allah. For a lot of people it doesn't happen right away the same thing that it didn't happen for you too. And I think one of the things that it happens at the beginning is that what is it about the situation that's making me really mad? Who said this to me before him? What is this reminding of If I don't know? I need to figure that out. It's not about him. It has to be about how I'm receiving it. I'm not saying there's a blame of.

Speaker 5: 42:57

It's always the woman fault that have that experience of emotional processing is vice versa, both of them. Even for a man, if he's triggered by his wife and his wife says something to him or not doing something a certain way, do you clearly communicate? This is what you want it? Are you avoiding the conflict itself or just telling her this doesn't sit right with you? And then, like you, give example to your husband. He was resisting to tell you how much you want the clarity of your kids, and then he's like I wanted this to happen because he's been piling up for so long.

Speaker 3: 43:28

And that's my guess. I might not be right, but that was what made me realize that you know what that's, because he never really said it. I don't remember, but that was my own assumption that helped me draw the conclusion. You know what?

Speaker 1: 43:42

maybe he's been just spiling up yeah, certain things, and now he's growing because usually that's what happened at the end.

Speaker 3: 43:49

I know you don't get that doing things for Allah right away, which is why I feel educating yourself early on will give you that asset.

Speaker 5: 44:01

The hardship.

Speaker 3: 44:01

You will kind of have to go through the hardship first and all that educating yourself first, like about marriage, about what you need to do, who you're doing it for, how I'm gonna do it. It will help you have that mindset from the get go.

Speaker 5: 44:15

I'm sure I asked you earlier about how, with two kids, the challenges and things like that, and at the stages of your life, how do you guys see love and how does love play a role, and how do you guys define love for you, two of you?

Speaker 3: 44:30

Caring for each other, checking on each other and doing things we like together and emphasizing a lot on finding that time that you have with just you two at that time. Finding the right time.

Speaker 3: 44:50

It doesn't have to be you're going out here or here and here. It can be just at home. But just find that time where it's just you too. You need that. When the kids are not there, nobody's there, it's just you too. And for me I used to be like, oh, let's have a date, let's do this, let's do that. And I think I guess your priorities change or what you like change as you grow older together. Maybe we did that at the beginning a little bit, but now it's just that me time, and usually we have that when all the kids are in bed and finding either a good movie or a good documentary.

Speaker 3: 45:28

I'm not a big TV person. I'm going to be honest. My husband, he likes documentaries, he likes to watch things that kind of help, our real life stories and things like that. So what I've realized is that I can incorporate that into our me time. So a lot of time, bedtime is a me time and we'll have our discussions there and find something to watch. Regardless that, I don't like it. But guess what? I am actually happy to just be there with him. That's what I'm looking for. So I'm there and I enjoy it along the way. So he's enjoying what he's watching. I'm enjoying my time, we're both enjoying each other, so it's just you have to find what the persons don't necessarily think, that what you see out there, that's what is going to work for you. You know what this is pleasing to Allah. Allah loves cleanliness that's the second thing in our religion and he loves it. So now we have all have our pleasure, because my pleasure is that I'm pleasing Allah, but guess what? I'm pleasing him too.

Speaker 2: 46:27

Yeah, what are some when spending time together in like my coaching certifications, they tell us to tell clients that don't ever compromise on things to do, but you should have one day where you do something that he likes specifically and then the other day you do something that you like, because then, when you compromise, both of you guys are not happy, because you're doing something that you halfway and he's doing something that he halfway likes. So that's what that reminded me of when you said you watch documentaries, that he's enjoying it and you're enjoying it just being there with him too. So that was nice.

Speaker 5: 47:01

How does he show you that he?

Speaker 3: 47:03

loves you, he's very caring, he listens, he try to do things I like, of course, and he's just there when I need him and he checks in. He raised something, say oh, are you okay, and he will try to cheer me up a lot and he's a really good support system for me, and that's what I have come to realize too. Like you said, we watch the movies and all that. You think love is like a man's I just come to give you flowers here, or they always they're saying nice words to you I love you, I do this, but that's not really the true reality of love for everybody. So you have to find what makes you feel loved, and that's what is love. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 47:53

Just to expand on that a little bit. I think, like you said, movies have, or even people. Sometimes, when you talk to them, they have this very fan fiction, very unrealistic, not just expectation or portrayal of love and marriage and how one shows another person that they love them. For some people, their imagination might be like me, shahrukh Han, dancing in the snow, singing and whatever, or whatever. Or it might be bringing them a bunch of flowers or chocolates.

Speaker 4: 48:29

But in real life and every day, when we are paying bills, when we are taking care of our children, when we are cleaning our houses, I don't care about the flowers. They're great, right, but what is that going to do for me if that's the only way that person is showing me or if that's what I'm expecting, right. But for my husband, that might be. He noticed that the house is a little bit messy and I'm tired, I don't have the energy to clean, or it might be the fact that, oh, he notices that the kids are giving me a headache right now. He's going to move them to another room and play with them and spend 30 minutes with them so that I can have a moment of silence.

Speaker 4: 49:09

And you don't pay it. It's not something that they say. It's not something, it's the actions that they do and for them it's the acts of service, right? They're noticing things that you need and they're doing it, and then they're also noticing that this is how you appreciate what you appreciate. So not just navigating the world based off of their own definition of love, but by your own definition of love, so that you receive it better. To conclude, I wanted to ask you two questions back to back. The first one is if you had to say five bullet point ways of to keep and maintain a successful marriage, a healthy, successful marriage, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 49:50

Three to five. The first thing, and the outmost first thing that I think every marriage needs to survive is the sense of respect for each other. You can have a wife here, or you can have someone else that can cook for you and clean for you. You can have somebody else that can do so many things in terms of being a woman or something like that.

Speaker 3: 50:14

But respect is a key because not everybody will respect you the way you expect to be respected or vice versa, and I think that's what we told the marriage to out. Love at the beginning is good, so you grow together, that love grows, but it comes a lot of partnership. If that respect is there, it's going to continue building on it. Respect is the first thing Open communication Definitely. Find out how you best communicate with each other and hold on to that. And everybody I'm not going to tell you there's a best way to communicate Everybody have to find what works with your relationship. And the third one I will say is compromising. Okay, you've got to learn to compromise. You've got to learn to be in the other person's shoes and sometimes you've got to just do what they like. Period. You don't have to give anything or you don't have to get anything, just do what they like. You already just did a lot for yourself without realizing. It seems just little, but it's a lot.

Speaker 3: 51:18

Respect can just mean that. Oh, he comes and say this today. I really don't agree and I just want to say what I think. But you know what? I'm just going to listen to him for now, and he's going to feel respected because you know what, I said something and she agreed. She didn't have to come back at me or say something. So respect is in everything. Or it can simply mean he likes you to put his foot together. I remember some girl told me oh, I cannot stand serving a man. I think I was like, okay, that's a sign of respect for them, like second one you're showing them it's not a servitude or something, but see it as a sign of respect. It's how you frame it.

Speaker 3: 52:03

Yeah, it's how you frame it.

Speaker 4: 52:04

Yeah, and I think just to add to that, to get back to another point that you mentioned is that when you do things for Allah and for the sake of Allah, you don't expect reciprocity from the person, because you'll get it from Allah, and that also avoids another conflict of like tit for tat, oh, I did this for you, how come you don't do this for me? So, like I think, even when the action of serving someone and being of servitude and being of use to the other person, I feel like if you're doing it for the sake of Allah and because Allah will be happy with you, then you don't feel like you are inferior to the other person. You feel like you are doing something that makes you know you're very selfish. Right, it's a very good way to be selfish as you're doing it. This makes you happy, I understand.

Speaker 4: 52:53

It's cool but I'm doing it for the sake of Allah, so it has nothing to do with inferiority and superiority.

Speaker 2: 52:58

Yeah, and it makes your life a light.

Speaker 4: 53:00

What is an advice that you would give to our freshly newly married couples or people that are currently looking to get married with and from your perspective as a person that has been married for a very long time?

Speaker 3: 53:14

Honestly, I feel the struggle in a society and an advice is it depends on what people are looking for, because everybody is looking for different things. The first and foremost thing I would say make sure that the person that you're going to be looking for is someone that loves Allah, and beyond that, you can be willing to just compromise and work to other things, because the way the world is going is going to be hard to get a perfect marriage, and there is not even perfect marriage. I think the one and foremost thing is just so that find out how that person loves Allah and the way you find that out. If you know someone that wants you, if you're already married, you know what, take the class with them If they're willing If they're willing, that's true and make it at the beginning a prerequisite.

Speaker 3: 54:15

Because at the beginning what women don't know. You can have contract. Yeah, stay what you want and what you don't want before you get married.

Speaker 5: 54:25

I've said this, I'm saying it again. I think premarital counseling is the one thing that a lot of people need to do before they get married, and they do two kind of premarital counseling One with the actual psychologists or therapists and one they do it with the sheikh. You have to do both, and I know a sheikh that who would not give you a nikah now if you haven't done those two.

Speaker 3: 54:48

I think that's a good thing to do. It's the best here and that's because of the way we live now. Back in the days it was different, but because life circumstances are changing, society is changing.

Speaker 2: 54:59

I want to thank you so much for having this conversation with us, and I've been just listening most of the time, because that is where we want to be in 16 years, insha'Allah. It just gives people hope and to know that it's doable. I think a lot of people singles and people who are married in today's society they're just like is it even worth it if I'm having to do A, B and C? And with social media and everybody's bedroom stories, everybody's struggles is out there, and so I really want to thank you for taking the time to sit down with us and give us a little bit of insight on the married life and how to navigate it, how to manage it and how to make it work.

Speaker 3: 55:42

That was my pleasure.

Speaker 4: 55:44

Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 55:45

Assalamu alaikum, wa alaikum assalam, wa alaikum assalam, wa alaikum assalam Wa alaikum assalam, join the conversation in the comments section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah SWT accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.