Navigating the ebbs and flows of romance can be enough of a challenge, but throw money into the mix, and you've got yourself a complex dance that many of us find ourselves tripping over.
Join us as we traverse the emotional landscape of money management, where tales of self-indulgence, financial guilt, and the fear of a dwindling bank balance become points of connection rather than contention.
Whether you're single, dating, or married, this episode provides a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice, aiming to empower listeners with the tools needed for financial literacy and communication. So tune in for a discussion that promises to enrich not just your wallet but your heart and your connections with those who matter most.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
Navigating the ebbs and flows of romance can be enough of a challenge, but throw money into the mix, and you've got yourself a complex dance that many of us find ourselves tripping over.
Join us as we traverse the emotional landscape of money management, where tales of self-indulgence, financial guilt, and the fear of a dwindling bank balance become points of connection rather than contention.
Whether you're single, dating, or married, this episode provides a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice, aiming to empower listeners with the tools needed for financial literacy and communication. So tune in for a discussion that promises to enrich not just your wallet but your heart and your connections with those who matter most.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education. The information on this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional mental health advice. Today we are talking about money, money, money and relationships. So I I'm really excited about this topic because I feel like, um, my husband and I are like money languages are on opposite, so like I hadn't had him sit down and take a money language assessment, because I guess nowadays like there's a language about everything. But so I was like on this side, a believer where, like we kind of hope and wish that we have enough money for everything, and he was on the opposite end of like planning and really wanting to make sure things are paid for and only paying for things in cash and being able to afford it and all this stuff.
Speaker 2:So I think we I wanted to kind of go back a little bit of like kind of giving the audience introduction around financial literacy and what it means, and what does that look like for all of us? And whether you're single, whether you're married, whether individually, just kind of financial planning, what does that look like for you? I think, growing up, a lot of us are not really thought to what needs to happen with money, because for us is money has attached to survival and being able to kind of spend what we have, not to kind of even plan ahead like rainy day or emergency day or somebody getting sick day, or, and if there's some sort of a crisis happen, what do we do? And so I feel like this conversation that today we're having is like intro to a lot of financial traumas that a lot of us experience because we don't know what needs to happen.
Speaker 2:And there are people who are hoarder, there are people who are overspender. That's the two extents that you meet in our community in general, whether it's Muslim community, immigrant community. Overall the people who hoard the money is like we're going to have to hold on tight because we don't want to be poor again.
Speaker 3:Like the Hame says, everything comes from a trauma response.
Speaker 2:Yes, everything comes from it. And then there are people who are like I don't know if I'm going to see another day, so I'm going to enjoy my life to the fullest and spend what I have, and there's no need for me to plan, and that includes with kids, with future for the kids and for themselves as a couple too. And so I'm wondering for both of you who are married, what was that conversation like? Like Apshita, you kind of talked about that a little bit, with you and your husband talking about financial literacy, financial planning prior to getting married, or is that something that you guys did after you got married?
Speaker 1:oh no, it's after okay planning, um it's after.
Speaker 3:But we did talk about like, how much money do you have and how much money, how much debt do you have and and how, what like your spending habit, what are your goals? How do you process money, how do you feel about money, like that kind of thing. But not planning. I think for us, the thing um the habit you mentioned when you said you know, with culturally like we don't have enough not most of us, at least we don't have enough money to it's like money is a like. It's is like savings is a luxury right.
Speaker 3:Savings is a luxury. Planning for a rainy day is a luxury because most of the time, especially back home, you get monthly checks right. Like the husband or wife, they bring monthly checks home and then that monthly check is like a rationed throughout the month. So the kids have to be fed, the kids have to go to school, they get to, you know, like all of these things, and then you pay for your rent and and then by the, by the 30th, you're itching yeah waiting for that paycheck to hit rainy day is is a luxury back there.
Speaker 3:So that from that aspect comes two different people, like I'm sure you mentioned also the hoarders and this, you know, the spenders. The spenders spent because they never got a chance to spend right like they never like, oh, when I was a kid, so and so had the best shoes and so and so had the best you know games and so on and so forth the best house. So now that I have money, I want, I want those things that I never had when I was a kid. And then the other ones are like, oh, because my parents didn't have money and they were struggling a lot, I want to make sure I never have to feel that way, that I will have it even though I'm not going to spend it, but if I want to spend it I will have it. So both of those are like trauma responses from not having money For me and my husband.
Speaker 3:I also grew up in a relatively paycheck to paycheck household. You know, I don't think we, my parents, would have been okay, like if they, you know, their paycheck got cut at some point. So for me, I. But then the good thing about my family, my parents also is that they were very honest about our financial situation, so they'd never like shielded us or whatever. Whatever. They were very like hey, you know, this is how much we get and this is how much the things that we can afford, this, we can afford this.
Speaker 3:And they were my, my mom specifically. She was very much, um, like never made me feel like we don't have, like we don't have it. But then, instead of this, get this anyway like it's the same thing, not like, oh, you can't have it, it's the most like you. If you have it, you will die. Like someone will like not have food, right? You know like instead of spending 10, 10 bit, like let's spend five bit on this, or you know we can't go out all the time, but like let's go out like on fridays. You know, that way I never felt that need to like want to spend all the time or the need to like hoard everything so I live in that from two income household, then yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so and my and my dad he was a spender Like he, he's the my mom was the financial brain in our family. She was the, you know she my dad came and gave the paycheck to my mom. She was like, spend it, like you know, do something with the household, so, but she always kind of designated like Fridays we would go out for juice, like after work, after school and after work and stuff like that. So, or like we, once a month we'd go to like Mercato and like buy clothes or something or eat Actually, that's not true, not clothes, we'll go to Mercato and buy something small during either Ramadan and like birthdays, we will get brand new clothes and shoes, you know. So you never felt like without. And then within our, within your community, you everybody's doing the same thing, right, so you're fine, so you don't. I didn't grow up with that like, oh, I have to hoard or I have to save. I just was like, if I have it, I will do what's reasonable with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know the mediums yeah, growing up, my mom was the financial breadwinner in the family and so I, like I grew up with her working and and she always tried her best to provide for us. Like you know, if anybody all the other kids will have phones or whatever she tried her best, you know, to give us as well. So then, after we got married, I think I made it a point to have that conversation about finances early on, because they, you know, they say that financial problems are probably one of the leading causes of arguments in a relationship and you know when you're not.
Speaker 1:It's a big stressor, you know, especially when you're not on the same page, especially when you're not on the same page and when you are talking to somebody and he or she has put up a front about either having a lot of money or not having a lot of money, and then, after the marriage, the reality hits. So my husband and I have been really good about talking every situation out, talking purchases and kind of saying, okay, what do we, we have, what can we afford? Um, and stuff like that. And me personally, I've always been like I would rather like spending on other people. I have no issues with right, like my kids and buying stuff, um, but for some reason like buying something for me if it's like really, really expensive.
Speaker 1:I kind of like a hub, you know you really don't need that yeah you really don't need that, or like you know it's too expensive or whatever. So I'm really trying to get it get out of that headspace of like if I want it, then just buy it. You know, yeah, especially if you like, if I have the means and I have the money, um. So I'm I'm like I worked a lot on trying to not have that remorse. You know, you go to the store, you buy a really nice perfume and then you go home it's like, oh, did you really need that? Or whatever.
Speaker 2:So so for me, I grow up same as bonnie. I had two parents, um who they are, two income, but my mom worked a lot harder than I would say, my dad. My dad will give what is in Oromo Domoza, you know, like rent, monthly income, like salary. He'll give, but sometimes, like it's not enough and my mom want to splash a little bit and do more, like let's say for example what is that?
Speaker 1:again Domoza Is that the same of like that is is Amharic word, but I don't know it in normal. Is that the same thing as like the Islamic concept of nafqa, where like no, it's just salary? Damuz means salary, I know, but I'm saying, like the guy pays, it's like the work the husband gives the guy, the husband pays the wife.
Speaker 2:Right the monthly I hear to take care of the it's the concept of nafqa, exactly Okay. So my dad would do that and my mom, like she, likes to do more. Like, let's say, for example this is an example about like meat, right, meats are very expensive regardless of what country you live in. And if my dad gave, like, let's say, $100 for the lunch and dinner meals, for the ration or grocery, Is that a monthly payment?
Speaker 2:she gets that's not monthly. But then Is that a monthly payment? She gets that's not monthly, but then he gives her a specific amount monthly and that's I say he doesn't do monthly, he do daily. So because he's like he do daily for breakfast, lunch and dinner and whatever extra things, I need to be by for that day, and so if my mom wants to buy something extra, she doesn't go ask my dad. Instead she used her own money because she also works.
Speaker 2:And so for me I grew up in that environment of two people working and financial literacy is not really something that discussed it's more like you have to have money and you can't really rely on like kind of take care of myself as the my only financial person who does. It is that I had to learn the unlearn a lot of financial traumas that I was raised around, based on the environment that I was in, because I come from a small town, awadai, which means that there's not a lot of like. It's more like a daily thing, like the same way my dad does it, then monthly thing. So for me, I have to unlearn those things like oh's more like a daily thing, like the same way my dad does it, than monthly thing. So for me, I have to unlearn those things like oh, what are the things that I'm still doing today? That is similar to my household, and so I think one of the things that I did which we're going to go into is that I kind of learned, did a lot of like YouTube learning and reading books and like learning about rainy day, emergency money, vacation money, saving money and then investment money.
Speaker 2:How do you invest your money? Do you invest your money in stocks? I didn't know anything about stocks until COVID and so I started learning about saving and doing stock investment in COVID and like not doing a lot of extensive money. That is that, as someone who's now has that understanding of like there is other way of investing and saving for your rainy days and things like that, is that the idea of one of the things that is really fear orientated for me is just going negative in my account. Fear orientated for me is just going negative in my account, like going checking out my checking accounts. You know, seeing a negative that's like a heart attack and a stroke and aneurysm at the same time happening.
Speaker 3:Have you, have you ever had one of those months like for me? This used to happen, like in college, where I avoid my bank account. Looking at my bank account, like for a week, because I know either it's like low account is gonna make me sad. I just don't spend and I just don't look at it. I'm just like until my paycheck comes.
Speaker 3:I'm just not gonna look at it yeah, and if I and I read that actually people that don't have like that are very tight in their in their budget or they're very tight in their um income. They don't look at their spending. No, they look at their spending least and they look at their bank account, the least amount versus people that have a lot of money in their bank account. That's true.
Speaker 2:They look and check more yeah, which is kind of opposite I feel like if you have a lot of money, you would just like rah it out, yeah, no and I think also you know the guilt's conscious, though right it's like it's also anxiety inducing, like if you look at it and you know what you don't have, you're gonna constantly in that space of uncertainty.
Speaker 1:But that's the thing with, like cash versus a card, right like if when I have cash, I know exactly what I'm spending it on and then, but when I'm you just using the credit card, it's like it's out of mind, out of sight, you know, and you just I feel like.
Speaker 3:I feel like I am one of those people that's like, if it's cash, it's not money yeah, it's a girl.
Speaker 1:Math, yeah, and I, I thought I the weird one.
Speaker 3:But then I saw it in those girls math TikToks videos that I'm not the only one Like if I have cash, if I find like $50 in my purse, that money does not count, you just got paid. I just got paid if I have.
Speaker 3:That's why I call it I'm rich like wallahi, like I'm like, oh, I can go get some sushi, like, yeah, I don't count that as a spending, yeah. But one thing I also realized is that, um, when we were having this conversation, when I was talking about myself and so on and so forth, is that, um, the concept of money and how money relates to you and how money makes you feel, is the trauma part right? And for me, I was told from a very young age and I think this is probably the only episode where maybe I am a little bit healthier than all of you guys what Are you bragging? No, I'm just saying like normally I'm the one that that's like I'm the most traumatic or traumatized or whatever.
Speaker 1:But I don't have any trauma. I don't know what you're talking about. That's what I just said. I'm the one normally.
Speaker 3:Good Anyway so what I'm, what I'm, what I was trying to say was that normally when people have and I kind of have learned this through now my, my aunts and so on and so forth is that I grew up in the idea of, like our house, our income, it doesn't matter what your neighbor has. It does not matter what your neighbor is doing or what you know, whatever your environment is doing. So if you have $10 on your account and you know you can only spend $9 of that because the $1 for your rent or whatever. I'm just you know you can only spend nine dollars of that because the one dollar is for your rent or whatever. I'm just you know, simplifying it and that your, your neighbor is have is working with twenty dollars, you don't, you don't look down and you don't look up.
Speaker 3:Or if your neighbor has five dollars and they're, you know if you are making $100, make sure you give yourself $1 to spend on yourself the way you want to. That kind of alleviates the guilt aspect of it. So like if I'm spend and then like when I was in high school and I used to work and after and I used to like and then also attach money with reward and after and I used to like and then also attach money with reward, so like, instead of spending money uh for like, if I want a purse that's like really a little bit expensive, I would attach it to a goal so I'm like okay, inshallah, like if, when I was in high school, I would say okay, when I get, like, if I get a straight ace this semester, then I'll get myself this thing.
Speaker 3:When, when you're older, you say okay, if I saved this much, or if I, you know, worked this much, or if I, whatever, I stuck to this goal of reading this many books, or whatever, then I'll get myself this thing. That way it alleviates the guilt of it yeah, and you take it out of that one percent of the income that you're getting.
Speaker 2:yeah, um, anyway, that was just I think that's a really good plan, a way to go about it, and I think that is a really good, healthy way that you know you're learned by the environment that you're in and I think that is something that to change the perspective of reframing the aspect of your relationship with money. And I think but we also have to understand that for people who have not even though that sounds really good, and to apply it unless they excessively worked on that and tried to unlearn the behavior that prior to came to it, it makes it so hard because the same thing that we were saying earlier is like, if I know I don't have money, I'm not going to look at my account right.
Speaker 1:So then let's go back to, I guess, what we started with, uh, the beginning of the episode, in terms of like when, when you come, you know, come into a union with another person, how do these, how do these like languages or ways of dealing with money come up? And when conflicts happen is when you have completely different views, right when you know you or your husband or one of them, one of you guys wants to save more, or one of you guys, you know, wants to spend more. How do you deal with that situation and how do you avoid that crisis?
Speaker 3:I think, think, when it comes to money you have to have first of all for those that are not already in a union, I would say you have to have that conversation clearly, with no sugarcoating, before you get into marriage, not just about what's your debt, what's this, what's that, but how do you relate to money? How does money make you feel? Is it important for you to have money? Is it important for you to look like you have money and not?
Speaker 1:just asking, but like I feel like putting scenarios out there, you know what I mean. Like I feel like sometimes when you're talking to somebody, they can tell you anything. Right, they can tell you, oh, you know, whatever, until you see it, until you, until you see it, you know, and I think you know setting up scenarios or you know asking questions in a way where, like you can really see what their relationship is with money is I feel like a lot more helpful definitely.
Speaker 3:and then also talking about your end goal, right, like, what does your rich life look like? I was actually. I don't know if you guys have been watching, if you guys have seen this Netflix show it talks about. It's a show called your Rich Life, I think I don't remember and he talks about what does your rich life look like If you were rich? What does that mean? How does how do you perceive being rich If you were rich? What does that mean? How do you perceive being rich? Does that mean a white picket fence, a house and, like you know, like nine to five job and like having a good retirement account? Is that your rich life? Are you imagining a yacht and a boat and whatever that extravagancy is? What does your rich life look like? How do you plan on getting there Right? Rich life look like, um, how do you plan on getting there right?
Speaker 3:And having that conversation of like okay, where, because some people they don't have ever, they don't ever want to like, they don't care about being rich, they care about being stable, they care about being, um, what is it? What do you call it? Like? Security, secure, yeah, they care about being secure and stable, right? So? And if that if you're marrying someone that's ambitious and that's just want to go get it and like, or you know, some people are not really ambitious, but they want to look ambitious they want to look rich, they want to.
Speaker 3:They want the newest house, they want the newest car. When they're buying it with a credit card, that's 29 percent you know, apr.
Speaker 3:So, like you just have to have that real, honest and sometimes open up the book in marriage. While you are married, you can't be oblivious to the spending habits of each other. I don't believe in secrecy and anything but this one is like a no-go. You have to be able to talk about money openly and I don't think regardless.
Speaker 3:I consider myself a very independent person. I'm. You know, I make money from the household too, just like my husband does. But when we come to the table, I'm like, even if I'm trying to buy from Amazon, you know, from from my $200 of, let's say, my budget of the month, right, like, I can do whatever I want and I, if I, if it's gonna step five, five dollars off of that budget that I have allocated for myself, we know, for whatever, I have to consult with my husband. That's not asking for his permission, that's working together, because I don't know if that five dollars is gonna skew something somewhere, right, so we have to sit down and have a conversation about it and be like, hey, I'm planning on spending this much outside of my budget. Or, you know, I have this extra budget from my $200 that I didn't spend. Where do you think we should put it?
Speaker 2:So I think for me I would say you have to ask how did you grow up around money in your household? What was your parents like with money and what were you exposed to? Because that exposure shows that how that person is doing. Because we all have scarcity mindset when it comes to money and if you see a lot of us, yes and if you're seeing how your parents and your family member has doing it growing up in that environment, you take on the same example that Bonnie provided about our aunt. You take examples and you apply those examples subconsciously without not even knowing. And I think asking those questions are like how did you grow up with money? How's your parents like with money? That would kind of also, it kind of gives you an idea You're not really looking for, like, oh, this person has a lot of money sitting on it. You're asking an open-ended question and now you just have to observe how they have relationship with their money and that's one way to kind of give you a little bit of glimpse of how they deal with money.
Speaker 1:So I think one thing I want to transition into is the fact that sometimes, when one person has the money right, it is power and control right In terms of the dynamics within the relationship. And I want to like get you guys' opinion on that in terms of like is it. Are you guys, I know, you know, in Islam his money is my money, my money is my money, right? So how would you guys navigate that in terms of do you guys have joint, would you have joint accounts? Would you have your separate account? And is it safe to say that you can have your own money that is just yours?
Speaker 3:You can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in two scenarios right One where, like, you are working and you are making your own money, and the other scenario is that you don't work, you are a stay-at-home mom. Um, but he's still responsible for your those are two different questions yes, I know. So those, yes both scenarios though.
Speaker 2:So because let's do the first one. Let's say you're working and you both are bringing money in. If there is, I think the question to ask is like what time and days are you living in right now and the time and days that we live in one income? Unless he's making more than $300,000 a year, one income is not going to be able to provide for the whole family.
Speaker 1:Depending on your lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Even if it is a lifestyle with education, with the bills, with the all payment. I'm sorry but I don't think like even that. Imagine like one income would not be able to sustain one household unless you have extra side hustles or businesses to kind of compensate. Yeah, because even if you make $100,000, it's not going to be enough for it to take care of kids and the family and your car insurance, all that crap that comes with it right.
Speaker 2:So in that sense there's aspect of contributing in and I do think that it's okay for the woman to have her own account and then there should also be a joint account based on that aspect of it. But if you're going to talk about the aspect of stay home, that's a little bit tricky and I don't have a lot of like. I don't know. That conversation itself makes me feel uncomfortable because it makes me feel like, financially, how are you if anything happens? How are you going to take care of yourself? Is there that conversation happening with you and your spouse Right? Like just unpredictable things can happen. He can get sick, you can get sick, something can happen in that system. What are you going to do? And I think being kind of having that conversation head on is probably what you're a stay at home wife, but you, you have a degree.
Speaker 1:You just choose to stay home.
Speaker 2:Are you asking my personal opinion?
Speaker 1:Yeah, both of you guys.
Speaker 2:I'm asking your personal opinion I don't know if I can be stay at home mom because I feel like for me, I like working, I like working, I like, I like the, the mental contribution that I have to the society. It might not be like full-time, excessive working. It will be a work of like, manageable, where a priority of the families are being stated and then my work comes second. After that, first family and then second my work, but I like working. That's the only reason I can't do stay-at-home parenting.
Speaker 1:I think for me, like I would love to be a stay-at-home mom, right like, but within the compact, like with a big enough allowance, I like that too. That's really good, you know, with the big enough allowance, where you know I can do my little spa days and I can, you know, do my stuff here and there.
Speaker 2:I think you're talking about Emiratis and Bahrainians and Qataris and Sudanese wives. I dressed up part two today, not Sudanese, saudi's wives, like I think, those lifestyle, that's what you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that really is what I want, because, at the end of the day, I think that me personally I've come to the realization that the biggest contribution that I can make is raising really amazing children that are able to participate in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that makes sense, yeah, and I think it's taken me a long time to realize that, because I've always worked, all through high school, all through college, and if anybody knows me, I'm always working yeah, right, yeah. And I think I've gotten to a space in my life where I'm just tired, I'm just, I just need a break, I just need to that.
Speaker 2:I can second it. Yeah, you know what I mean. I mean there's a difference of being. I want to be temporary, like take a pause from working and then get back to it.
Speaker 3:No, I don't want to work.
Speaker 2:No, no, I like working.
Speaker 3:What about you, Bonnie? I was just thinking about the things that, like I, don't work at all.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 3:I think one thing I realized, actually specifically with this maternity leave that I had, is that I love staying home with my kid and this is new, this is new information like I've never been the person that's like stay at home, chill, like my, you know, but I loved staying at home for three months and just being at home and not doing any well, not doing, not having to clock in somewhere right, but at the same time, at the same token, this is the most productive I've ever been in that three months time. So like I was like creating businesses and I was like creating NGOs and I was, you know, like I was doing things that were like my passion project. So I realized like I would be a stay at home no, I want to be rich enough that I don't have to clock in anywhere and I can spend most of my time with my family, but I don't want to give up my passion projects and I don't want to give up my financial independence.
Speaker 3:Yes. And then when it comes to the original question that you guys are talking about, when it comes to like, is my money his money? Sorry, my money my money and his money my money If I'm working or if I'm stay at home mom, I think the idea sounds great. But then regardless, like I think, regardless if you're working or if you're not working, I think everyone should. The money pile should be available to everybody. Everything that comes into the household should be available to everybody, Meaning that from that pool of money gets taken out the food, the mortgage, the kids spending, mali, mali, and then everyone gets an allowance. If I get, like I said, $200 allowance, he gets $200 allowance. If I am a stay at home mom and I don't have an income, then that two hundred dollars.
Speaker 3:The only fair way of doing that is that that two hundred dollars allowance that I have, I put it away right you know, I put it away for a rainy day for myself, because for me, being a being fair, right in today's economy, it doesn't make sense where I am taking two hundred dollars to spend and then two hundred dollars to put away, while my husband that's working and coming home is putting, taking that two hundred dollars and then to do whatever that's his allowance, while, like you know what I mean, that other money is spent for everybody, because it's not like I'm using that 200 to buy groceries, right?
Speaker 3:So I think, if you're, if we're, every, any money, any coin that comes into the household should come into a pool where it's accessible to everybody. And once you are married, you have to think in a union matter, right? Um, that's how I would. I think allowances are great, allowances are awesome in the sense that, like, the more money you have, the more allowance you get, like I said, right so, but at the same time, it's up to you if you want to save that allowance or if you want to blow that allowance, regardless if you're working and you're bringing in money to the pool or if you are a stay-at-home mom. That's just how I see it.
Speaker 2:I think, think, that makes really good. I think we all want to have a little bit of financial freedom.
Speaker 2:It sounds like all three of us have a similar idea around that, but I do want to talk about a little bit of differently for single women out there. When it comes to financial freedom in this aspect of it, this is great for couples and people who are planning on getting married and getting this advice for people who are already married and how they're doing it and I think this is something that I'm also keeping noted in the back of my head and how y'all do it, and that means that how people can learn. As far as for, like, people who are single, both men and women, I think it's a great time for you to kind of learn about this. Learn about this information that's been shared, learn about the educational aspect that you don't have access to yet. So, kind of taking a step back and like what is budgeting looks like for me right now and what is saving looks like right now for me? What is saving? What is investment looks like for me right now? What is borrowing and giving to other people looks like for me? Like, am I comfortable with doing that? And what does it look like when I'm married that my husband might do something like that? How do I have conversation? Do. I feel uncomfortable with that.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes we shy away because we hear so much about money causing problems between people and their relationships, even interpersonal relationships like friends and families and sisters and brothers and in that level. But I think we also need to learn that if there is a clear communication about, hey, I'm borrowing you this money, I need it back, versus I'm giving you this money, yeah, yeah, and I'm giving you this money, that's a different conversation, right? So my thing is that, for individuals who are singles who are listening to this conversation, please take the time to get to know yourself with your relationship with money. Just like we talk about therapies, we talk about you know, taking care of your mental health, learning what your needs are based on.
Speaker 2:Financial issues are huge in a relationship. It's one of the reasons, like Apsharo said earlier, that people do get divorced and that is a very stressed conversation to have because you haven't talked about the way you were raised around money, you haven't talked about your own insecurity around money. You haven't even talked about your own conditioning things or that has been happening to you all your life and now you're noticing like I want something and I want to get it Versus. Well, do I want it or do I need it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all that's going to really like help you. Once you figure out all that as a single person, then you can show up so much better when you are in a union.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so definitely, and I just earlier, when Tahabi was talking about borrowing, that's one thing that kind of just jumped at me and I, if I give anyone any advice, is that don't borrow people money. Give it away, yes. Like if you give away what you can live without. Like, let's say, for example, if someone asks you for $1,000 and if you can live with giving them $500 and them not giving you back, then just give that. Don't give the $1,000 expecting the $1,000 back. That kills relationships. I don't believe in borrowing money. If I give you what I can live without and then if you have the ability to return that money to me, alhamdulillah. If you don't, our relationship is safe.
Speaker 1:That's my so do you say do you borrow it with the intention of not expecting it back? Or do you say do you say like, okay, um, I'm, I'm letting you like? It's fine, this is is my gift to you? How do you do that? So I kind of just do, without expecting it back, because I mean if they want to give it to me, but the person knows that they're borrowing it though.
Speaker 3:Yes, they think they're borrowing it, Okay okay and they think they're borrowing it Because I'm not bawling like that. If I am bawling like that, then I would be like so it, you know it's a mindset thing, it's a, it's for me a lot.
Speaker 3:Then I don't have any grudge, any resentment. I'm not. You don't have to hide from me when you see me. You know what I mean. You could just live your life. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And wrapping up with it, I one thing I want to say is make sure, make sure, make sure, make sure you therapy. Therapy is not just like about your relationship with money and what money means to you, specifically you, because you can't fix someone else right, you have to fix yourself and you have to be able to, like, clarify what your relationship is and how you attract money and, at the same time, kind of zoning your money out, your savings you pay yourself first before you pay anything else. Savings have to pay. Be one of your bills, right, your savings, your bills, your investments, your, your donations. The more you give, the more you get. I am 100 believer in that. Your donations. Make sure you, you know, and make sure you allocate those and not budge, and then you're obviously you're, you're, you're. What's it called? What is that word? Bills, no. Emergency money, no, the emergency money too. But the Saudi people.
Speaker 1:Allowance, allowance.
Speaker 2:You're allowance Allowance, yep, so yeah, and I think that's that sounds like really good and I think that's the way to kind of work on your financial literacies and financial planning so that you can unlearn a lot of conditioning behaviors that we all have learned from society, from our family, from our friends, and so we can have a better relationship with money and better relationship with our significant other and people in our lives and just give people like that space to grow to you know, and like people are not perfect and your relationships, your spouse, none of you guys are perfect.
Speaker 1:So just you know, talk it out, have that conversation and then get on the same page.
Speaker 3:And remember money is just a tool.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, it's an important tool. But it's a tool yeah.
Speaker 3:Assalamualaikum, waalaikumussalam, this has been Difficult.
Speaker 1:Conversations. Join the conversation in the comment section or on our social media pages. We do not have all the answers, and our biggest goal is to kick off the conversation and get it started. May Allah accept our efforts and use us for catalysts of change.