Difficult Conversations
Difficult Conversations
Breaking the Generational Cycle
It's a journey many of us are on—disentangling from the web of generational habits to foster healthier relationships with our children. In this episode of Difficult Conversations, we wade into the deep waters of family dynamics, sharing personal stories that shine a light on the necessity of transforming our inherited behaviors. Therapy may not always be within reach, but personal accountability is. We discuss the profound influence our actions and words have on the younger generation and the need to meet our children where they are, allowing them to develop at their own pace.
Raising emotionally intelligent children requires a delicate touch—one that respects their unique qualities and nurtures their individual growth. We address the pivotal role of conversations in understanding and responding to our children's emotional worlds. Through anecdotes and reflections, we explore the evolving concepts of respect and authority, and the impact of our own upbringings on our current parenting styles, emphasizing the critical balance of being both a friend and a figure of authority.
Join us as we navigate the complexities of parenting through generational trauma, setting boundaries, and, ultimately, laying the groundwork for our children to grow into brilliant, strong individuals.
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Assalamu alaikum, Welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education. The information on this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional. Mental health advice.
Speaker 2:I want us to talk about a little bit about the things that our parents did and the things our family used to do that have kind of we've noticed have negative impact on us and our behavior, and maybe even other people's behavior, and how we are planning on not passing that to down to our kids. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3:How I feel.
Speaker 1:Don't ask the therapist Come on now.
Speaker 3:You know well, actually, you know I want to say something about that. I know in a podcast, I intend to use the word therapy therapy a lot, and I recognize that therapy is not for everyone. That's one. Secondly, not everybody has the privilege to actually seek out therapy or have the financial family safety to do that. So I just want to create that disclaimer before I use a lot of it. So in this episode I'm going to be using a lot of that. So I just want to give you guys a heads up on that. I said heads up on that.
Speaker 3:I think the thing about generational cycle is like one of those things that your parents had said to you earlier and you're like, if I have my own kids, I'm never going to do that. So it's more like those things. Like, for example, in America, it's like when they say, do you have McDonald's money? It's like every parent is like, yes, I have McDonald's money for my children, because my parents always used to say that to me. Or if they say, you know, go to Target, don't look at anything, don't touch anything, just we're gonna go in and get what we want. So it's kind of similar to that.
Speaker 3:And for you as a parent, what are those generational cycles that you guys are working on breaking when it comes to your kids? Because I think one of the things that I'm sure you always say about your kid is like you have one that is very like, head on, have our own boundaries, and then you have the one that is like very like yourself, very timid, very quiet, very common, collective. Like what are those generational cycles that you guys are working on breaking as a parent? Like, what are those generational cycles that you guys are working on breaking as a parent, I think.
Speaker 1:I think these things are like so insidious right that, like you don't even recognize that you are living out your experiences in childhood and I don't even know if I want to call it trauma. I know you know you say that a lot of things are trauma and stuff like that. Wanted to call it trauma. I know you know you say that a lot of things are trauma and stuff like that. But it's just certain situations where, like you're like whoa, where did maria come from?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean and, like you, you say it and then you, like that sounded exactly like my mother, exactly you know, um, and I think I don't. I don't spend the time to sit down and be like, ok, why did I say that to her and where did that come from? I might, like you know, make a mental note and be like, oh, maybe you shouldn't say that next time. But my question, I guess for you guys, is at that point have you already done the mental damage?
Speaker 3:that point. Have you already done the mental damage? So I have actually a story and then you guys can tap on that. So I was talking to one of my nephew um, I think a couple of months ago, and we were having this conversation. I'm noticing that I'm getting triggered in the conversation and and then he brought it back and how that trigger made him not feel, but like how it sounded. So I heard myself from his mouth like whoa, is that what I said? And then usually what I do is that I hang up the phone and then I just like walk away and so I can process it alone, not to kind of deal with the conversation while it's happening.
Speaker 3:So that day I sat with him and acknowledged myself, acknowledged and took accountability in how I said it and apologized for it and I said I am sorry. I just realized how that sounded like and I'm seeing why, because it was more like I was treating him as 10 year old version of himself, while he's this like young adult person and he's not the same 10 year old person that I used to. I raised, helped, raise Right, and so I'm operating from that frame of mindset where he's still 10 years old to my mind but he's not. He's a grown person who can make his own decision and apply that. And so when I've hurt myself, it's like I said, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:I just realized what I was just doing. I was treating you as your 10-year version of you, but I didn't realize how much that you're grown as a person and you are a young man technically. I haven't really met you where you are. Yes, you can say I'm a therapist and because of this happened. But I also had to do a lot of internal work to understand like I can't treat my niece and nephew, who are in their 20s, compared to how I first interacted with them when they were younger, because now they have their own mindset, they have their own feelings, they have their understanding. So I have to kind of tap in. And so when it comes to like as a being, a parent, like you're seeing your child grow from a toddler who's saying no to you, to everything and now, like that no is not changing based on how they read your face, based on how you react. So how do you guys break those generational cycles? Um?
Speaker 2:I think for me there's a lot of mental note that was taken right, like when I was a kid I would be like, oh, if it was me then I wouldn't do this. But I think, um, acknowledging that therapy is not for everybody, one of the few things that I noticed while going through therapy was that a lot of, even the things that my family probably thought they were doing in positive right, not just. No, it's not always necessarily a negative thing. Sometimes it's the positive thing, the positive things, such as like oh, you know, I've talked about this before like, oh, bonnie's gonna be something great someday.
Speaker 2:That puts an unnecessary, unrealistic expectation on your child. It's good to make them feel like they're going, they're great, right, but then also making them understand that you're you're just an average joe, like you're cool, like if, if you are living your nine-to-five life and if you're happy and content and you're good member of society, that's good, that's normal, that's okay, that's more than okay, you're succeeding. You know what I mean. Versus like feeling like, um, there's this expectation from you to kind of do something epic, so everything that's not epic feels like a failure. You know what I mean. And that was not done and with the intention to, like you know, put this pressure on me, or and it's not just me there's a lot. There's actually a saying that kids that have been told that they're great or they're going to be great or they're, you know, they they sometime when they're children and they show this exponential um, maybe they're doing better than their peers.
Speaker 2:So they're the, the teachers and the parents, and everybody just zones in and focuses on their intelligence or their whatever. They tend to do worse than their peers later on in life because they can't keep up with the expectation right. So that's one thing I've noticed that, like, I'm like no, you can't hyper focus on, on your child's specific talent, which is why, like, for example, um, actually my, my, um son had his um winter, um parent teacher conference and the teacher was telling us like you know, yusuf is the only one in his kid, in his class that can actually read a book from front, front to back, and he's he's like, sits around and like he, his peers sit around him and he like reads the book for them. And she's like you know, you guys should entertain the idea of like, maybe getting him tested to be able to skip a class. I was like no, he's not going to skip a class, there's no point. Like, that year is not going to save him anything in the long run. But then in that year of like, where he's not in the same age group, then he's going to feel behind. He might be ahead of his academically, academically, of his peers, but he's not the same as, of, you know, the kindergartners, right? So he's gonna go from being the head kid to the behind kid, which is not good. I don't want him to play catch up all his life. You know, let them meet him where he is, versus him trying to meet other people.
Speaker 2:Uh, so that's one thing, even noticing that, hey, the positive affirmations that you're doing to your kid might be damaging to them, versus, like, you know, like it's not always the negative things. Secondly, the negative aspects of like, hey, making comments about the kid's appearance, like not hyper fixating on the kids. And this also could be, uh, in the positive category of like, not hyper fixating on, like your daughter's beauty, or your son's beauty, or you know, or their skin tone, right, oh, she's so, she's so yellow boned or she's so light, you know, her hair is so smooth and so long. That's our, our community's thing, right, like the euro, euro, eurocentric beauty standards, right? So, like, not hyper fixating on those things and not hyper fixating on their flaws, either being like, oh, this or not even flaws, like hyper fixating on the fact that they're not like for my daughter. I fight against this a lot where she's not like lay down and take it kind of chick.
Speaker 2:She's a two year old sassy. She will set the world on fire and I'll let her old sassy. She will set the world on fire and I'll let her. That's, and I want to be able to embrace that instead of being like oh no, you know, she's um, she doesn't listen normally. No. Talk to her in a way she'll understand, explain to her in her language. Um, of course I am no gentle parenter, you know, I am like old school, in the sense that I have discipline, I have rules, I have regulations, I have to be a respectful person and so on and so forth. But your personality is not a flaw, like. Your personality is who you are, and I'll meet you where you are. I'm not gonna try to bend you and contort you and to fit in to make my life convenient. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Listen to you. I feel like one of the biggest things I have to fight against as a parent um is all of that like community standards and um, you know, judging your child based on um, x, y and z or whatever and then. But the other thing is just like pigeonholing your child. Right, this is the shy one, this is the not obnoxious but like this is the fighter, you know. And just putting a label on the child even before they're able to grow up and decide that label for themselves. And, honestly, kids really, they notice these things, they notice that.
Speaker 2:They become what you call them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they become like it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and, like my oldest, she'll call you out on it. Right, they'll call you out and be like, okay, well, you let her, or you let fatu do a, b and c, and you know, you never let me do this and um, and stuff like that. So when, so the other day, I was like you know what, let me implement something. You know, let me sit the oldest down and talk to her and have her be like okay, like tell me, uh, let's walk through or let's talk through, she was like having this meltdown and she was um, very emotional and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So, just me and her, we went in the closet and we, just we just talked and she's and the amount of, like, emotional intelligence surprised me. Yeah, right, yeah, and I'm just like whoa, like, and she's able to define or like explain, communicate, communicate what she's feeling, why she felt that way, why, like, she felt like her sister was doing A, b and C to her big age. I'm not able to be like, okay, and I was so like proud of her.
Speaker 1:But then I was also like like I don't know, not threatened, but I'm just like, well, like, how do I handle that? You know, as somebody that doesn't is not outwardly emotional, um, or like show a lot of like emotion and stuff like that, it she's a like a big contrast to me, um, and so I had to work through my problems first and be like, okay, let me just let her go through it and figure it out. And and we were able to, you know, figure out what she wanted me to do and she's like you know what, I want you to get the younger sister and talk to her as well and explain to her and basically facilitate us talking to each other right and that she hurt my feelings and did a, b and c.
Speaker 1:So it was an eye-opening experience.
Speaker 3:Some of the things that I always say is that, like children would for parents this is for our parent. Listeners are like your children is going to trigger the part of your childhood that you are not getting your emotional needs not be met and when that happens you should reassess. When you're like, oh, that hurts here and I'm feeling so strongly about it, it's like I need to go reevaluate myself, like what is something about this situation that's bringing up for me and validate? The fact is that somebody said this. I'm having so many examples right now.
Speaker 3:There was a lady she recently. She said she was watching a video and then she just felt like something was not right within her while she's watching this video. It wasn't about the video, it's about her own emotional triggers. That happened while she was watching a video. She kept going back to the video, back and forth, back and forth, and then she said I had to realize that I didn't have this level of childhood safety, that I couldn't watch that video and I was getting annoyed watching that person tell a story about their childhood and so I had to leave that. So when you both are talking about how do I break generational cycle, is that the things that was not available to you you're allowing your child to do it, you're honoring that instead of kind of like putting a negative reinforcement on them. You're like, yeah, you want to Go ahead, because sometimes children what is the first word children say when they are able to speak?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:No Right, that, no wallahi. That is a boundary, that is the biggest boundaries that we don't see it as. But then what do we do? We dim it as they continue to grow. So when they are able to understand the society that they're in now, they no longer say no.
Speaker 1:I can't think of how many times I've said like are you going to say no to me as a parent and that I don't know that feels so, so uncomfortable. It's just like because we kind of superimpose it on the whole, like respect for parents, right, and how we grow up, it's like there were my, your parents word was the final say and you, you didn't have, um, you didn't have any way to be like.
Speaker 1:Let me explain this to you right even to this day, like our relationship with my parents is like you don't, you don't really be like OK, this is what I think and this is what we should do. You know it's like OK, what do you want me to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, when you were speaking, you kind of triggered a thought in my brain, because you know when, when, when you're a kid and you feel like your parents are talking and then they tell you why are you quiet?
Speaker 2:I'm saying all of these things, and then when you start talking, oh, you're responding back to me. Huh, and I think it's it for me in my growing up process, like there's a lot of things that I'm I can see myself, um, getting triggered by, but it's not necessarily by my kids, it's by my nieces, right, cause they're closer, like they're, I mean, I guess they're like they're my kid, like they are doing the triggering for me before my kids. So hopefully I can get there out of it before my kids get to that age. That's true, but, like I, I'm noticing that, like, for example, when, um, my nieces get to, my nieces get to have like these things, they, they ask, they they have this balls to ask, be like, hey, mom, can I go do these things? Yeah, that I never thought I could even ask, because you know, you didn't think it was available to you.
Speaker 2:I didn't think it was available to me. So when I see that I have this very harsh and negative reaction to it, but I'm so far I'm removed from them that they don't, I'm not like affecting them, it's just I'm experiencing it and I'm also realizing, realizing and alhamdulillah for some reason I always say this like god has put me in positions and spaces where people challenged my thought process, so that when I first got pregnant with my first son, the first thing I did was go to therapy. I that's like the most consistent therapy that I've had started then because I was like I don't want to parent from a space of trauma where I am more of a friend or more of like, um, I'm authoritative, not necessarily in authority, because I I thought I was going to be more lenient towards my child, because I didn't want to be so strict as, like you, know how I was raised and I was like but that's not healthy either.
Speaker 2:You know, you don't want to be a friend to your your kids. You want to be a parent to your kids. Your kids need parents, not friends. Yeah, um, and then being able to understand like I think that's the best thing parents can do is that, especially if you've gone through something, especially if you've had like if, even if it's not the most unhealthy upbringing, but it's not the most healthy upbringing if you feel like there's residue of some sort of thing that has gone, that you feel like you could have done better or that could have been that could have been done better for you, it's better to work it out in therapy so that when you come and your kids are doing these things, you're able to step back and say, okay, am I going to let this thing happen just because I didn't get to do it, or am I going to process and say, okay, what's the right thing to do? Right, what's the right thing to do right? Yeah, for me, for example.
Speaker 2:Um, let's say, for example, if my daughter wants to go to homecoming, yeah, right, I never went to homecoming and I'm just throwing out a random example. My daughter is too. She's not going to homecoming in a long time. But am I gonna say yes just because I didn't get to go right or because I wasn't even allowed to ask that question? Or am I gonna say no because where? Where's my no and where's my yes coming from? What's the reasoning behind it? I have to justify it in my head so that if she asks why, I have to be able to give a reasonable why which she will have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why yeah, and I think I do believe no is no. My son says it too no is no, it's a good answer. Like I think no, because I said so, is a good answer.
Speaker 2:As long as you don't use it all the time. Yeah, there are certain things where I don't want my, I don't want to sit. I can sit there and explain to my child the fire birds, but if that, he that's not computing for him. Maybe, if it's because he's too young or something like that, he should understand. Mommy said no and no is no, yeah, and that's not computing for him. Maybe if it's because he's too young or something like that, he should understand. Mommy said no and no is no yeah, and that's fine until he meet me. We're at age where we could sit there and have that conversation. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So I feel like parents should be able to one set a space for your kids to disagree. I think your kids should be able to disagree with you to a certain degree without consequence. So like when I tell yusuf and nafi no if they don't like it and if that's something that's valuable to them, even at age of two and four, they say no, mommy, I want to do this. No, no, no, why no? But I want to, you know, and especially yusuf, now he's learning to push back. So I sit down, I regulate his feelings, I'm like okay, so if I understand, you want this, but this is why we're not doing it.
Speaker 2:Okay, do you know? And you know he's a four-year-old, so he fixates on that thing. So you go, let him, or disagree, let him just, you know, give it that point of view and then at some point, bring down the wall and be like okay, I explained, this is what it is. You, you said your piece, we tried to. You know compromise, and if none of these work, you have two options either you do this thing or you do this thing. Which one do you want to do? Yeah, so I think, and I think options work for kids options, options work Very well, very well.
Speaker 2:Just being able to give them room to be individuals. Give them room to disagree. Don't be an authoritarian household where the kid doesn't have any value and any voice. Right, the kids should be able to have the illusion of choice.
Speaker 1:No, not. So you remember how we the actual choice too.
Speaker 3:We talked about how being indecisive as an adult happens and we become self-sabotaging and we do these things right. All those behaviors started when those conversations are happening right. All of those like I can't decide because I'm doing according to what my parent told me.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the biggest things like I'm working through with my oldest right now, because, like, even like as small as getting dressed for school, right? So I'll be like, okay, do you want to pick out an outfit? And so she'll be like, okay, which one should I wear? I was like, whatever you want, she's like okay.
Speaker 3:I was like she's like okay. I was like she's like oh, which one do?
Speaker 1:you want. I was like, no, she's asking you, she's asking me. Yeah, she's like which one do you want? I said, no, it's, it's what you want you pick. Yeah, you know. And so getting them to used to the idea of making those decisions for themselves and just know that, like every kid, all every kid has a different personality, a different amal. You can say that, like, how I react to one kid it's completely different to how I react to the other, you know, because they both need two different things from me, you know, and so I can't do like a blanket thing. And so my oldest she's, you know, obviously going to, she has online classes and she has Quran that she's learning, and then the other one, she's three, so she's too young and so a lot of my time it's like explaining to the oldest that, okay, well, she's not ready for this yet.
Speaker 1:You know, this is something you have to do, you know what I mean and just talking with them through those little things, because they might kind of register it as it's not fair right, Like I'm having to do this and she's not. She's not doing you know, X, y and Z.
Speaker 1:But the other thing is I want to stress that, like, kids are an amanah from Allah SWT. You know this is I think of it as like they're alone to you right, like this is something that Allah has given you and so you have to kind of care for it in the best way that you can and then realizing how, like your baggage and stuff like that might affect them and getting them to like the best outcome that you can get them to.
Speaker 2:So definitely, and I think I think when I say and I want to clarify a little bit when I say the illusion of choice, is that there is also this thing called decision fatigue, right? So, kids, they have to understand that you, their realm of reality, in their own, their realm of like, power is a certain level, like, for example, um, I knew that from a very young age that, like what my neighbors had I couldn't have, not necessarily neighbors, but my school friends had I couldn't have. We didn't have the same money, right? So for my parents they would take when I would go shopping. They didn't take me where the other people went shopping, they took me to this place and they said this is the choice from here.
Speaker 3:You can choose, yeah.
Speaker 2:Not from here. You can't. Even if you wanted to, you can't. So that illusion of choice is that you take them where they can make the choices without like boundaries you know what I mean, boundaries like you know what I mean but then you have already put that boundary ahead of time so that you are letting them explore within that time, that, that that dynamic.
Speaker 2:For example, when you are talking about clothes um, for my kid, I don't normally say, like, go to your closet and pick whatever you want I say, okay, you. So if you have to pick a shirt, you have to pick a pants, you have to pick underwear and you have to pick a sweatshirt because it's cold. So there's that boundary that's already created because he can't say, oh, I'm just going to wear a T-shirt and go, that's not a choice. You have to have these four things. That's the boundary that I've set already, and then from that you can go to each of the drawers and be able to pick one. So the illusion of choice is that he thinks he's doing it on his own, but I've already set out these lists that he has to pick he has to kind of choose from that will keep him safe.
Speaker 2:So I don't think that free not necessarily what you're doing is wrong or anything. I'm just saying, like when I say illusion, I don't want to make you know what I'm saying, I want to make sure I'm clarifying what illusion of choice looks like in my household.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it sounds like you know therapy is part of generational cycle that you're doing and you are also kind of providing a way of to regulate self-awareness. Self-awareness, um, providing choices for your child to make sure that they're able to decide, and setting boundaries and respecting their boundaries with you as a parent, um, in a way that.
Speaker 1:and I think I think one last thing I want to. I know we're wrapping up, but one last thing I want to also touch upon is the modeling aspect of parenting and making sure that, like, if you're saying one thing to your child, you're not doing completely the opposite thing, because they're consistent with yeah be super consistent and if you know one day they're not able to do this, then the next day should be the exact same thing too, right?
Speaker 1:because if, if, if you are sending mixed messages, that's really going to confuse the child, yep, and they'll call you out on it.
Speaker 3:Don't trust you, because they're like well, mommy said this, but I know she's going to do that so it's kind of learning to also, like I said earlier, learning to apologize when you recognize your, because I think that what it teaches the emotional safety that you're creating with them when you recognize your shortcoming, with your kids as they grow older not right now.
Speaker 3:But even now, if you do, you can go ahead and do that. But when, the more they grow, the more you see and you apologize, you're building trust, you bring emotional safety, so they'll come to you more with more things. So I think this is a way of kind of. I think this is a conversation we might have to continue to have.
Speaker 2:But this is a starting of those generational cycles that we are continuing to break so we can have sustainable, strong, brilliant, resilient children in this world.
Speaker 2:I want to add one more thing about that forgiveness and apology. I want to add one more thing about that forgiveness and apology when you make a mistake, acknowledging that you made a mistake and saying I'm sorry. When you overreact, when you're feeling like you're being triggered and you're acted from a space of trigger, instead of like that, like disproportionately to what the child did, apologizing, acknowledging why you did it this way and then that way they can do it themselves too. Right, and being able to come to go to them instead of them asking you to like going to them, be like, hey, so and so I thought you know, maybe mommy was a little loud and I'm so sorry, and when they call you out on it, owning up to it, you know, because they would say I'm sorry, mommy, don't be defensive, yeah, for doing this and this, but you should have, you know, done this, yeah, this and this, but you should have, you know, done this, yeah, say yes, I probably should have.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry, you know, and at the same time, also, when you and your husband and you and your wife are communicating, making sure you're modeling what you're teaching yeah, for them to do with their peers, yeah.
Speaker 2:so if you're talking in a tone, if you're talking in a volume, if you're communicating and if the other person is feeling sad, making sure you're apologizing and being in tuned, and so on and so forth, they see you guys interact with each other and they practice that with their with their peers. So just making sure that we are practicing what we preach.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I think that's we're going to really leave it there. This has been a difficult conversation, so assalamualaikum.
Speaker 1:Join the conversation in the comment section or on our social media pages. We do not have all the answers, and our biggest goal is to kick off the conversation and get it started. May Allah accept our efforts and use us for catalysts of change.