Difficult Conversations
Difficult Conversations
Choosing What Matters
We all know the struggle of juggling life's many demands, but what if we told you that redefining sacrifice could actually empower you? Join us as we share our personal journey of transformation in 2024—where we moved from cautious beginnings to confidently embracing our voices. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on our podcast's evolution, tackling the challenges of communication and collaboration that ultimately strengthened our bond as a genuine sisterhood. We candidly discuss the trials and triumphs of forging friendships and navigating difficult conversations that matter to our community.
Discover the power of prioritization and the emotional impact of saying yes or no to life's many commitments, especially for women who often face greater expectations. Through moments of solitude and introspection, we have embraced internal growth and mental clarity, ultimately improving our health and well-being. As we reflect on the meaningful conversations of this season, we invite you to join us in fostering positive change within our community, looking forward to the new possibilities that 2025 holds.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education. Hello, how are you guys?
Speaker 2:doing today, we're good.
Speaker 3:Almost with a deep voice.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I'm just kind of feeling myself today. I don't know, I'm just kind of feeling myself today. But I wanted to kind of just start off today with a moment of gratitude, because today is our second to last episode that we're recording and just kind of taking it in like how far we've come. You know from my laptop days, our first recording on my laptop. Do you guys remember that? Yeah, it was my laptop, think, and it was like, yeah, and you remember, we thought we could just record and on the laptop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah, so I I just want to like take it in like well, we've come a long way. How do you guys feel about that, like just reflecting on that whole podcast journey, just since it's what what's today. Today is the 28th of december and we're looking back on 2024 and our journey so far as a podcast and as individuals I think I think we've come a long way.
Speaker 1:I think, um, if you were to go back and listen to some of our episodes, it definitely shows. You know, I think we're a bit we were. I mean, like every any project, we're a bit clunky at first and trying to get our mesh and how we, you know, talk about certain things, and I think we've grown a lot individually as a podcast and you know, we do have a lot more things planned. But I think overall is one of growth, of understanding, of compassion and just working together as a team, which I really enjoyed this process with all of you which I really enjoyed this process with all of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we did mentally, emotionally. Topics are changed over time, so we have grown in that sense. I think we also kind of grown as an individual as we are on this journey together in the last four years. Part of that is I think we are a lot more outspoken to each other on things that does arise in the process and things that may come up or even trying to.
Speaker 3:We're not like walking on eggshell as often as I thought I would think by this time, but I do say 2024, this year, 2024, this year has been the most growth for me, I would say in the sense of I wanted. I said something last year when we were recording season three that I wanted to kind of take a risk on myself, and I feel like I didn't take external risk as much as I wanted to. I did take a lot of internal risk, and I think internal risk because did take a lot of internal risk, and I think internal risk because of accepting a lot of vulnerability in my within myself and allowing myself to be able to be okay with certain things the way it is and not trying to change or hope to be changed and because I think I've never understood the concept of taking things for face value until 2024. So it's been a very interesting year, I would say, for me, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for us as a team until this year, I feel like we kind of finished not, but like we were, you know how like there's the, the forming, the storming and the norming form.
Speaker 2:I think um 2024 was a peak in the climax of the storming, you know, and like we were just like we're like okay, we are done playing nice, we're just gonna like get our hands dirty and, like you know, like get like figuring it out, and then I think we're just crossing over to the norming side now, which is great because I feel like now everybody we're on on all on the same page and we're like in sync and I feel like there's a lot of trust that's built um, our friendships are solid now versus, like you know, maybe year one, um, and I think there's like also like there's real sisterhood.
Speaker 2:It's not just like, it's not just work or it's not just you know, we're not here just to do something and go home. It's more of like, okay, we're here to actually better each other, we're here to challenge each other, we're here to push each other, to annoy each other, um, all of that in between. So I think, as as a team, um 2024 was like real. It was really pivotal because it got us face to face to things that we needed to like figure out and then it got. Also, it kind of showed us the things that were really great at and that works for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was definitely a make it, or also it kind of showed us the things that were really great at and that works for us. Yeah, I think it was definitely a make it or break it year, because we were all going through things individually, and so I think we really had to answer the question of like, do we really want this project to work? And if so, then what would that take and how much time commitment would that require? Because initially we just, I think the first year we were like, okay, this is an idea, do I want to be a part of this? And then, second year, we're like we at least for me like really not sure if this is long term. Third year, we kind of push through it.
Speaker 1:And then, fourth year, we're like, you know, certain challenges, you know whether it's communication styles or how people, how the three of us work, because we all work completely differently when it comes to tasks and stuff like that. And, you know, doing a project with just three people, especially a podcast, we're trying to talk about certain things. We're trying to, you know, really connect and talk about things that are not really talked about in our community. It's hard to do and I think we kind of went into it thinking that it was going to be a lot easier than it really is. Lot easier than it really is. So, um, so, yeah, I think I do agree with you that, uh, we are finally kind of at an equilibrium. You know where we're like. Uh, we can definitely uh do a lot more things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think what else do you guys do this year that kind of had a little bit of evolution within yourself.
Speaker 2:Individually, do you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say this year is probably my hardest year, like personally. There was just a lot of things at the beginning of the year that as a family we were going through, whether it's business or work and with kids, and you know, my, my girl started school and then I put my son in daycare full time and I feel like I had, I had freed up so much space, time for myself. But then I had a lot of things too that I was trying to do and accomplish, whether it was the business or whatnot, and it was, I would say it was probably one of the hardest years for me and alhamdulillah, you know, my husband and I, our relationship got, you know, so much better, stronger, because of all the stuff and you know that I don't really want to go into in terms of, you know, financial stuff with the business and blah, blah and all that stuff. But I would say that now, being hindsight, you know, being on the other side of it, I learned a lot about myself. I learned that I, because initially, you know, in college, I had did a, I wanted to do like a what is it called? Like a minor in business, cause I, I really wanted to do the business thing and then, but then I was always afraid because I was like what if it doesn't work out? You know you really need a plan B and so I did do a comfortable, you know, um, I went into the medical field and Alhamdulillah, you know it's been, it's been really stable, uh.
Speaker 1:But this year I feel like I learned what it really means to be in business for yourself, what all of that requires, what sacrifices that you have to. You know, what sacrifice that you have to make. And now, when you bring kids into the mix, it kind of makes it a lot harder. So I've come to the realization that I really just want to be home with the kids, realization that I, I really just want to be home with the kids.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think for a long time I, I was fighting that, the fact that, like you know, I had, I got this degree and I want to be that independent person and I, you know, I want to make my own money and blah, blah and all that, all those things that I thought that I wanted. You know, um, but now it's like my kids are young and they need me because I don't, and I did drop down to like a 6 at the hospital. But even that, you know, it's like whenever I'm out going to work, they're like mommy, where are you going? You know, you've been gone for so long and so it's a lot of guilt and you know all that stuff that I'm definitely still working through. But it's one realization that I was like okay, this is where you need to be.
Speaker 3:I have a question for you, Shiraz.
Speaker 2:You said something that kind of triggered me a little bit Not in like an emotional aspect of it I think it's the concept of sacrifice.
Speaker 3:Because I hear that a lot and sacrifice is me like compromising and in my head this is what I understand it as like compromising and restricting and it just feels very the word itself feels suffocating, yeah, and I wonder what that is for you.
Speaker 1:So I think for me, sacrifice is like, once you have decided what's important to you, you know, whether it's two options that you have, whether it's A or B, whatever option that you choose, you are sacrificing the other, or you are saying no. When you say yes to something, you're definitely saying no to something else, and so for me it's that not necessarily in a negative way, that like, if you know, if I have decided that, yes, I want to be home more with the kids, I wouldn't necessarily, then you're sacrificing, like going back to school and you know, furthering your career and you know, and all that stuff, and for me that would be a sacrifice and that is worth it.
Speaker 3:Does that answer your question? Yeah, kind of. I mean, does that mean that you're compromising part of you in order for something else to work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, because that's it yeah.
Speaker 3:I think like, yeah, yeah, it's definitely uncomfortable, I'm not so the thing is that the reason why I bring I'm not the type of person who says that you can have it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah, you could if you wanted to. It just depends on how what all looks like for you, right, and the idea of sarcophising and like it requires so much from women to do it more than it is asked for men to do it, and women usually sarcophize a lot like, and I think that concept and that's probably I'll talk about how my year went, but that's where I was like that's a lot of that. Languages was so much around it, and so that's why, when you said that, you know, when you want something like, specifically, business, you have to sacrifice a lot of your time, your energy in order for you to make that work, which you do, and you have to go through a lot of work and time and energy to establish and make it consistently so that it can maintain in the future. I get to work with that. My brain just thinks it's like oh my God, this feels so much work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go ahead. I mean my understanding, but, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, because I think I completely understood it differently. Like that word sacrifice for me, and I think I understood it the way when you explained it. You know, because whenever you're making a choice between two things, you're just dropping something else and that is a sacrifice, and I think the language you know that is a sacrifice of, like, I'm choosing not to do both at the same time, because I'm choosing to give the energy that I would give for this thing to this thing instead, because I want this to thrive a lot more than you know, giving 50, 50 or whatever the case is, and I think that was like my understanding of it and which is like for me, um, that is I.
Speaker 2:I don't find that exhausting, I find that like relief relief yeah like I find I find it like okay, you, you are choosing what's important to you and prioritizing what's important to you. Does that make sense? Like that's how I saw it, because maybe that's like maybe there's a link, there's a, there's a definition attached to it that's different for you than it is for me.
Speaker 3:so maybe, yeah, I think there's a similarity for how you guys define it as an owl, because I think for me, if so, maybe, yeah, I think there's a similarity for how you guys define it as an I will, because I think for me, if I let go of one thing, I already committed to that thing to go. I don't have any hard feelings, or I don't.
Speaker 1:Is it like a let go to pick up later or just let go?
Speaker 3:done. No, for me, when I make decision, I make decision because the time that I spend time trying to make those decision is a lot longer than it needs to be. So when I make commitment to something, I show up a hundred percent right. There's no if and when. Oh, what, what if? What if I try that that differently? What if, what if I missed on that one?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't, I don't do that, I let it go. That's good. So, like my, whatever decision is like if I want an iPhone, I'll stick to iPhone. I wouldn't go to Samsung because I know everything about iPhone that I needed and what iPhone would do for me, and kind of tally based on that and then commit to that tally and then when I'm done with iPhone, then I can move on to Samsung. Right, so I'm more like that than I don't have. Like I don don't have my decisions, like I make it and I'm okay with it. That's why it takes me a long time to make a decision, even when we're trying to make something. That's why I say I need time to make connection.
Speaker 2:Because you really sever, then that's what it is For me you really sever.
Speaker 3:I have to, because for me it's like I don't make a hasty decision, I don't make a hasty decision, I don't make jump decision. I tell people I make calculated decision and my decision is always being calculated and that way is that when I do make it, I'm committed to it, right, 100% yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think I also make calculated decisions, I just make it faster, I don't.
Speaker 3:I'm a delay processor too.
Speaker 3:I process things slowly and I accept things slowly, even with relationship, love, things that I like, hobbies. When I like it, I like it, and somebody recently told me this is a sign of you having ADHD too. What for you? Yeah, oh, okay, it's a psychologist who said this to me and she was just joking, but it probably is. Because I don't make my decision easily and if I love something, I love it 100% and I'm 100% there with that. If I hate something, I hate it 100%, the same way I like it. That's the only time in my life that I can be black and white on things.
Speaker 1:I think I live more in the gray with decisions black and white on things. I think I live more in the gray with decisions Like I will make. I can make a decision, but then if, let's say, I make this decision, I always have in the back of my head that like, okay, if this doesn't work out, you can always pick up the first choice. You know what I mean. You can always pick up the first choice.
Speaker 2:And some decisions is not necessary that it's a done deal, it be no, not now, right, it could be like maybe five years later or ten years later that's probably have a decision fatigue because I'm thinking, thinking and all angles and then I decide yeah, I, I kind of also go plan a, plan b, plan c, plan d, like I have a backup plan to my backup plan, because that's why I'm able to like make um calculated but quicker decisions, because I say these are my priorities, these are the things that I want, this is the route that I see, and the rest that Allah right.
Speaker 2:And then, if this doesn't work though, I will go about this this way if you know Monday doesn't work, I'll go do it. Am I able to do it on Tuesday? Or whatever. You know, time wise, money wise.
Speaker 1:If I can't do it for $15,000?
Speaker 2:can I do it for $10,000, whatever, like figure it out that way that so explains your love process even like in our meetings because, like, by the time I present it to you guys, I already have like plan A, plan plan c. So when you're like, oh, maybe this wouldn't work, but I'm like, what about this one? Yeah, and you guys think I'm like bombarding you, but my brain has already come up with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just gotta let us time to process plan a. Yeah, before you go to plan d or even marry, to type plan a.
Speaker 2:That's also the thing is that I feel like for me I'm, my brain is a problem solver. So I'm like, give me the problem. Why aren't you liking? Like, give me the problem. Why aren't you liking this thing? Give me the problem. What's the problem? What's the reason? Right, let me figure out the solution around, the reason why you don't like it, and then let's get to the solution. And then you guys are like I'm just processing and I'm like yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I think you probably process instantly and I think mine is like a one to two day and hers is maybe like a week processing time. A week processing time.
Speaker 3:But you know, the thing is that even with that a week processing, I actually leave it that day Like we talk about it and I leave it in that meeting and then I somehow something triggers to pick it up, but I don't think about it the whole time.
Speaker 2:So you don't process.
Speaker 3:So you're not taking a week to process, you're just leaving it to say I'm leaving it.
Speaker 1:I'm leaving it for now, but that's, and I'll pick it up later. But you're still not thinking about it.
Speaker 2:So much because I have a thought hold on a second oh my god so because sometimes we'll have conversations right and you're like I'm gonna process and come back to you with it. And then when we have the conversation, the following meeting. You are in the same space that you were the first time we had the conversation. I just picked it up that day. How does that work? Oh, my goodness, because you're not taking a week to process.
Speaker 3:My brain has compartmentalized that because there's other urgency. That day happened Right. So it's like, for example, we have meetings, right after my meetings I have another meeting. Yeah, so that system has already prioritized itself. Yeah, so because of if that's all I did that day, then I will process it right away. Think about it, because urgency and then priorities take place for me, then my brain is kind of okay. This thing that you have to think about, I think about it later, at the end of the day, not that day though.
Speaker 2:You don't understand the joy I feel right now by feeling so vindicated. I feel so like I'm like, oh my God, I'm not crazy.
Speaker 3:This feels so good, but I don't leave it, and what I'm saying is that I'm re-explaining myself that. So at evening when I'm going to sleep, I think about it then, because now things are settled. Oh, okay, so let you kind of misunderstand me a little bit. Okay, so here, this is what happens, right? So we have a meeting and then I have another meeting, I have another meeting and the whole day is kind of booked up. So my brain is kind of like put this in a safe box and pick it up later when you have time.
Speaker 3:So I put it in a safe box and pick it up in the evening when my head is laying down. Oh, you're supposed to think about this, how does this work? So then I'll think about it again night and morning when I first get up, when I don't have rush of other things. So then by the time we come to our meeting, I'm still confused on. There's other questions coming out for me now related to that thing. So that's why, when I come to the meeting, you guys think that I'm just thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Then Is there other stuff coming that's already confusing me and you guys are looking for a solutions of if I, if I came to a decision which I haven't kept, any no decision, yeah, if that makes sense, okay, so now, now thinking ahead, right? Um?
Speaker 3:we haven't asked Bonnie how's her 2024 yes, no, she didn't.
Speaker 1:No, no. Oh sorry, you want to go, let's go. No, no, no, tell us, tell us.
Speaker 2:I'm always, I have so much. No, I'm kidding 2024.
Speaker 1:Oh, I actually wouldn't ask any week, Only me went Myself. I was just like I said moving forward, let's do it. I was just like I said what I needed to say 2025.
Speaker 2:2024. For me it was a lot of like learning. I had a different experience where I was kind of like I learned that if I really wanted to, I could do it all. Like that was this was the year for me. That kind of made me feel like well, like you're not you. You talk about giving a hundred percent all the time, or like you talk about doing a lot of things, but you really don't do a lot of things.
Speaker 2:You could do so much more if you wanted to um, but then I used to praise myself a lot about quantity of, like the things that I do. Now I'm more about like, okay, pat on the back, you can do it now. Focus on quality. So, meaning that what is important to you, what do you, what is what deserves your time, what deserves your energy, how does this advance the way where you want to go in life? Um, how does this advance? Like, how? Because I I think a lot about legacy, a lot like that's I. I think a lot about legacy, I think a lot about impact, I think a lot about death. Like what am I leaving behind? Um, behind for my kids, behind us? Like memory wise, you know, what do they remember me with? You know, because I always think about, like, if I walk out the house and like die in the car accident, now, like, what is the memory that they have with me? Right, like, what do? What is that you know? So, um, and then also like with work, like what is my impact? What is like, is this pushing the agenda that I want to push, or whatever? And um, so because of that, I'm full 2024 helped me kind of get to. Okay, quantity is not the most important thing, it's about quality and the quality of work that you produce, the quality of people that you spend your you know your time with um, the quality of conversations you have, um and the depth like being scared, not being scared to push the like. Push the envelope a little bit, even if, or like, push the conversation a little bit, even if that means it might make me uncomfortable or someone uncomfortable, as long as that's gonna get us somewhere, like, it's gonna drive us somewhere better.
Speaker 2:Um, I also learned in 2024 actually, one of the biggest lessons I learned is um, your own healing is dependent on yourself. You can't expect the person that did the damage to be responsible for your, the healing of you. Like, you have to be able to kind of like, you have to be able to do the work on your own and heal yourself, because if you leave, like because I am, I used to be the kind of person that, um, I like order in in things, so, like if Apsharo pissed me off or something, I have to have a conversation with her and I have to be like hey, apsharo, this is how I felt, this is how I received things, okay, and then she'll say you know, this is how I felt this is how I received things and even if, like, we walk away like never talking to each other, I like that kind, the idea of like understanding where or the other person have each of the people having ability to say what happened and understand what happened you know to a certain degree. But then, 2024, I realized, like not necessary, like it really is not necessary to be able to have that conversation. It's okay. Like it's okay for you not to say your piece and for that person not to be there. You can say it to your notebook, your journal. You can have that conversation with them in your notebook. You can have that conversation with them with your therapist. You can have that conversation with them with your therapist. It doesn't have to be that person next to you and you shouldn't expect them to come back and kind of like, hey, you know, have a reflective moment with you to like address the situation.
Speaker 2:And I also had one of the biggest conversations of my life this year that made me understand one of the most complicated relationships in my life and I made me realize, like how humanizing people is very important, like everyone has a story to why they do what they do. Everyone's truth is different and just having the courage and the bravery to be able to like pause, listen and like actually listen, not for like vindication, not for um, like not for I got you or like not for what, just listening to why they, why not even why they did what they did, but like how they processed it, how they justified it, you know, and then being able to say your truth honestly, without sugarcoating things and being like, yeah, I can understand why you you or not even understand, I can see, you know, that's how you saw the situation, but this is my, this is my, this is my reality.
Speaker 2:This is how I experienced it. And this is how I lived it Right and then letting them have that and I know that sounds like oxymoronic to what I said previously of not needing it, but when it does happen and you know, like You're saying, that some relationships are necessary to have it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, are necessary to have it.
Speaker 2:And then also, I feel like for me I was able to have that conversation in a healthy manner, this very important conversation in my life with a very complicated person, but very important person in my life Because I was able to do the work beforehand to not need that person's validation of the situations that happened To not need that person's acceptance of like the wrongs that they did, I was like you accept it, you don't accept it, cool, I'm good, you know.
Speaker 2:But then when they were able to accept it, I was like, okay, cool, like that makes me feel good, that makes me feel like validated that can better the relationship but I didn't need it you know what I mean so that was, that was what 2024 was for me.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of like introspection, a lot of like rebuilding, and me it was a lot of like introspection, a lot of like rebuilding and building relationships. It was a lot of growth and also challenging myself in the sense of how do I show up at home with my kids? How do I show up in my marriage? In my marriage, you know, like me and my husband had a two-hour long conversation in the airplane about how like our communication style could improve and like how we disagree and what we expect from each other, and how like we can deconstruct our idea of like husband and a wife to fit the person that we're married to, instead of like our imagination. So all of that stuff. So I feel like 2024, I was a student, most of literally and figuratively a student, and I also learned to ask for what I want.
Speaker 1:Close mouth, don't get fed, yeah, so clearly I mean like, yeah, say it clearly what you want, not the other way.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, yes, yeah, clearly, both ways. Yeah, uh, no, like being able to. If you, I wanted the promotion, I made sure I fight, I fought for it. I um wanted to make sure to get you respected in the workplace and to get my, my experience valued. And I used to just be like, oh, you know what, I'm here for the paycheck and like I'm just going to let you do you be the Karen or whatever and I'm going to move on. But then I was like you know what I don't like? That I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't accept that. I'm not gonna. You know, I'm not your dancing monkey. I'm not going to say how high when you say jump If that doesn't make sense for me. Regardless if you're my supervisor or not, you know what I mean. I'm all of these things.
Speaker 2:So I feel like 2024 was a lot of moments of being assertive, being a student and also learning that sometimes there's beauty in silence, even though I'm talking a lot right now and I'm not being silent, no.
Speaker 1:I? I was smiling because I remember, uh, I think closer to the beginning of the year, that job that you had turned down. Yeah, and then, um, and I do remember having that conversation with you where you're like you know what I'm about the paycheck and if the money is high enough, yeah, you know, I will apply for it. So but one thing I was thinking about is you know, when you have those conversations with people, are you saying you're letting go of seeking that conversation with certain people that like, you're like you know what, if this relationship works, it doesn't you know what I mean? Like it's not really in my close circle of people that I want around me. So even if we don't have that conversation and close the loop, then I'm okay with that. Is that what it is? Or is it more of like in like in general, close or not?
Speaker 2:You know, if we don't have that conversation, I can live it. Yes, for both. Okay, let me explain. So I feel like with anybody, regardless if it's my sister, my husband with my kids, with a stranger, you know I should be able to say, okay, I'm good with you, without like, I'm good, I, I validate my feelings, right, I'm found, I can heal my own wounds without needing them to do it, without needing them to do it.
Speaker 2:But then how important is that relationship for me after I did that? Because once you, if you're consistently expecting or wanting or needing people to like help you heal your wound, then it's going to be a very needy relationship, right, it's codependent, codependent. So once you heal your wound, then it's going to be a very needy relationship, right, it's codependent, codependent. So once you do your own healing, you're like okay, how important is this conversation, how important is this relationship for me? To bring it up? Then I can bring it up and be like hey, from a healed space, not from a defensive space, not from a place of like you did this and that and the other.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I and that and the other, yes. So, um, I'm like, okay, cool now. I wanna let's talk about it. Let's talk about you're important enough for me, like I could leave you like the other people, in the sense that I could have a very surface level conversation. I could have blah, blah, blah and we could keep it there. Because that's what happened, that hurt me once, shame on you, hurt me twice, shame on me, right. So? But your relationship is important to me, so I'll come and address it. This is how you made me feel. I wonder who initiated that conversation?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, I did okay, but it was because I felt like there was a narrative out there. The person was understanding and I are we talking about the same thing? Yeah, okay. Uh, the person was understanding. I was like you, it's so like far removed from reality. So like if we don't get a grasp on it, like what actually took place and what, what is what really happened, and like that can only happen if you also have my perspective on because we were both there, right, like you, that can only happen if you have my perspective and we can like fact check each other. You know, like, do you agree with this thing? Do you remember this happened on this day on this thing? Okay, cool. So how do you think this conversation went? Okay, cool, what? For me, this is how it went. Okay. So, were they receptive? They were, yes, yes, they were receptive.
Speaker 1:But I will say um, you're talking about the, the conversation you had with that important person.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so they were sorry. We just went. What is going on here? No, yeah, because I think the.
Speaker 3:The reason why I'm asking right this is she's saying that is the most important relationship in her life and it's also the most difficult relationship as well. And I and then she was talking about the healing process of what's been happening for her this year and I wonder part of that healing, of continue to work on the healing aspect of it, was the initiative being done by her or the other person the aggressor, not the aggressor per se. Let's not call her that, no, let's not call them the aggressor. But for me to understand, if you initiate, it means that there must be a lot of work that you have to do within yourself to forgive part of the things that you experience, to validate you and to understand that your validations from this person is not needed. If it's there, that's great, but if not, that's okay, yeah. Person is not needed. If it's there, that's great, but if not, that's okay, yeah. So you're in a place of comfort to take that very courage space to initiate the conversation, the hard conversation, because it's not easy conversation to have.
Speaker 2:No, what happened for me was that I I went to umrah, yeah, and not even just went to umrah. There was a lot of you know things that were happening for me, as you guys know, this year. Um, that kind of were like wow, like this, this is great. Oh, this is great oh this is great right, so it's been an incredible year for me and so I, every moment, I have a moment of gratitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I, when I'm being grateful, I'm not just being grateful for, like, oh, you know, my, my husband, I'm really grateful for all the people that opened the door for me, all the people that held the door open for me, all the people that thought of me on their way and they grabbed me along the way. So all this time when I was doing that, that person was always there. That was that person. One thing I'll give them credit for is I don't feel bad giving them credit for my success.
Speaker 2:In the sense that that person was able to hold the door for me. That person never forgot me. They had, they could have been selfish with their life and, you know, just left me and you know just, oh, not my problem, not my monkey, not my monkey, not my circus right, um, but they brought me along the way along the journey and in that, uh, in that, I was able to again get opportunities get, of course, with my own hard work with my own efforts and so on and so forth too, but I was able to navigate the world in a better way and to be able to get so.
Speaker 2:Every moment that I had that space, it was a moment of like.
Speaker 2:I want to recognize this person. I've forgotten this person in the sense that I just split the two personalities of like this person that hurt me and this person that was there for me and doing those great things for me. And I started acknowledging the positive things that this person was able to do, because two things could be right at the same time. So once I did that, I was able to say okay, thank you, thank you for this. I want to let you know like I see you, I see this and I'm grateful for that, and I said thank you for this. And then, when I was in Umbra, I actually cried at Umbra and I called everyone in my family and I said thank you, I'm able to have this experience, I'm able to be here because you guys brought me along, you allowed me you never forgot me, right, and that led me to be able to be like, okay, seeing the person again, not with just my lens and my experience and my emotions and my story, but what?
Speaker 2:their side? That there's not even just my story, the other side of the story that I always neglected because the pain was too much.
Speaker 3:So anyway, long story short. It's just kind of like I just wanted to kind of summarize what you were saying and then maybe you can have add more thoughts to it. It's kind of understanding that you're in a place of in your life where you feel comfortable enough to identify. Two things can be true at the same time. I can love this person so much that they have done so much for me and be grateful for that, and then I can still also talk about the hurt that came along with that too, and those two things doesn't have to be separate, they can stay in the same room.
Speaker 3:And then that was the whole aspect of the year and I think for me, as someone who's been seeing that relationship in the way I have, and I think that's incredible for both of you, it's elevation in the relationship and I think for you to be in a place to identify the two things can be true at the same time. That's a personal growth and I think that's an amazing thing to even say that aloud to yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that was 24, 24. I think, um, I, and with us, specifically I I always say that I'm not really good with friendships, so, but I'm getting better, you're forced to know I'm getting better, uh, so, uh, and I, I honestly always want to say, like any opportunity that I have, like I want to say thank you, thank you so much. I am. You are one of those people that I'm very grateful for. You guys know my, my circle is tighter than Don't say it. Don't say it.
Speaker 3:Tighter than anything.
Speaker 2:So I have a very small circle, very tight circle, and so I I grow because you guys allow me to, you guys make the space for me too with your tolerance, with your acceptance, and I am able to go places because of your support. So, yeah, I'm very grateful, I'm very reflective. I know that I'm always a bit harsh sometimes, but there's a lot of love.
Speaker 3:I wonder where you got that from, but yeah, so that's my 2024.
Speaker 1:Definitely not me. That was not for me.
Speaker 2:That's not for me.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. That's you the habit, so what?
Speaker 3:is 2024 did for me, I think for me I wouldn't talk about any external success or anything. I want to talk about internal experiences that this year has brought for me. I feel like, mentally, this year was one of the better years for me. I don't know if a lot of people know, but I struggle with depression and it's hard. So this year, alhamdulillah, was a better year for me and I had a lot of clarity with Allah this year and that clarity has brought out so much easiness for me in many aspects of it and I learned so much about my physical health and mental health and social health and family health, and a lot of that was the year, as well as what Bonnie was explaining about her own year. And I think the other aspect of this year is that I've decided to at the beginning of the year I think a lot of people in my life do know is like you know, when you're a Muslim girl, everybody expects you to be a specific way, live a specific way and practice a specific way. Way, live a specific way and practice a specific way, and that societal expectation, family expectation, your own expectation kind of merge into one and you're starting to view the world from that point of view and this year I decided that two years ago I found out that it's not. It's sooner to get married, but it's not wajib, and that has liberated me two years ago and that experience continues to liberate me this year, where I've decided that at the beginning of the year and the continues throughout the year, that I've decided to de-center marriage out of my life and not prioritize marriage or relationship in general and living life for based on what Allah has permit for me to be and how to flourish in that space. I don't, as like Bonnie was talking about, I don't think about legacy, I don't think about what I am, what I will be to people or to relationships, anything. I think about how, what are the things that I can do for me to grow in my relationship with Allah more than anything else, and I'm not doing the way I want things to be done in that sense. But I think my connection to Allah is so deep this year it's like I feel like I call it the world noise and I center Him and I am like in that space.
Speaker 3:And yesterday was a specific example. Yesterday I was home and I worked a little bit half day and it was loud noise from Allah. Allah's telling me go to the masjid, go to the masjid, go to the masjid. And I was like, okay, it's raining, I don't like to drive in the rain and the weather is really horrible and it's dark outside and it's like foggy and I don't want to drive. And so around Maghrib time was it was like 4.20, I was like I wanted to take a small nap. Allah's like you need to go to the masjid now. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the masjid, I'm going to listen to Allah. And so I went.
Speaker 3:I drive, and the road was scary, people were driving horrible. And so I got to the masjid and there wasn't a lot of people and I prayed a over there and I witnessed somebody. Like it was a small, small thing, right, I witnessed somebody converting to Islam. I didn't even plan for that and I was like, oh, so you're telling me to witness something that I'll get credit for. Okay, so I'm glad I went and I remember how much I missed masjid, because I don't get a chance to go that often because of work, and part of the things that I wanted to do better next year we're going to talk about future is that I want to go that often because of work, and part of the things that I wanted to do better next year we're going to talk about future is that I want to go to masjid at least twice a week, not twice a week, twice a month. If, concretely, friday, specifically Friday evening, I'm just going to go to Isha and Maghrib, pray Maghrib there and then stay in Is.
Speaker 3:I felt that was so helpful because it was so amazing Like I feel so calm in my heart and I feel so connected. And I felt like when you decided that the priority with life is not what I can be or what I can do, it's what Allah can allow you to do. And I center that. I feel like I don't have to chase this external world success. And and yesterday even that when I was talking to my, my actual therapist and some of the things that she said to me. She said the priority that you have for yourself in day-to-day are so, so heavy and so strict, like you have so much structure and this structure it burns you out at the end of the day, where it doesn't have the space to do things and that's why you're so tired at the end of the day because you're working so hard. And I said, yeah, I do. I think I work harder mentally and physically sometime and that shows, and so and I'm like, let me not do that.
Speaker 3:And in that sense, like she was encouraging me, she's like I think you need to accept how certain things are not really necessarily as important that you feel like it is, and are you able to separate the differences of your goals.
Speaker 3:And I said, yeah, I think I need more micro goals and a large goal, because I think a large goal feels very daunting to a complete than micro goals.
Speaker 3:And so micro goals is going to the masjid twice a month and creating Fridays to be for Allah only, and so I think that's been this year has been really interesting. I say that interesting every time because interesting for me has a mixture of challenges, ease and growth and surrender and acceptance within me, and I'm also kind of in the sense that this is also the year that I've lost a lot of other friends that I used to know and it became really the relationship was not doing what it's supposed to do for me and I think allowing to grieve that and being okay with that has been great, because I feel like that's what I was saying earlier. I'm accepting people and situation for face valued, versus trying to push my empathy, understanding and to be in that space, and I think I want to allow people to be who they are, without me having this expectation for them to be certain thing that they're not showing me and hoping that they'll change and things like that. And so it's been very, um, an interesting year.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, that is amazing. I just had a question. No, I was just going to say because you mentioned, mentioned and if, if you don't feel comfortable to share, then that's okay. But, um, you said this year has been good for your mental health and like how you know, especially with you and your depression and so on and so forth, and just for our readers, like if were there specific things that you are doing differently to help you in that aspect? Um, because I know that you that certain changes also kind of contribute to that, or was it just a holistic change, that kind of?
Speaker 3:contributed to that. I think it's acceptance. I've been working on my mental health since 2020, like everybody else. It's acceptance. I think the reason why I even share that today is that in our Oromo community, in our Muslim community, we don't talk about, we have struggles and we tend to have this projection of how everything is perfect. We're not.
Speaker 3:And for me, it's been a journey and this is the first year I see clarity, like the whole year. There's clarity. It wasn't like hard year, it was like easier. It was kind of like, yes, there's days that things are hard, but those hard days doesn't last. It's more like shorter than it was, prolonged, uh time. So I wouldn't say it's one thing made it. It's been a journey. That I think Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, made it easier this year, I think is it could be the dua that I made in previous Ramadan. It could be, but I think it's like it just felt clear. It feels like the path is much more. It doesn't have zigzag, it's just like I see the path and I'm okay with that and I'm not trying to make something work. It's more like Allah got me, I got it. I love that, do you?
Speaker 1:think that, because when you were talking, I kept thinking about that ayah, where Allah says in the remembrance of Allah, your heart finds ease and comfort, and you know, and stuff like that. Is there like specific things you do that you? I guess I have two questions. One is that you know, are there daily things that you do that kind of help with that ease, you know to kind of center your day? Things that you do that kind of help with that ease, you know to kind of center your day? Yeah, um, and also, was there a specific moment where, like where it was really loud, where Allah was telling you like just let go, or was it like a build-up of small things, okay, that you're finding like okay, now I hear you so you might not like this.
Speaker 3:Okay, it's fine. Allah decided to seclude certain people for a reason, and this is why I love Imam al-Ghazali work. Imam al-Ghazali is like something that I embody, that Allah has secluded me for the past four years for a reason. If I didn't have the seclusion, I don't know if that would be the path that would help me. If you live alone, you spend a lot of time with your emotions, your thoughts, your feelings, your understanding, your perspective. There's not like external noises, responsibilities or things that you do. Because you have more time with yourself, I feel like I talk to Allah, like Allah is my best friend. I was going to say the part that you don't like is the living alone part. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I really I talk to a lot in the car, in a house, and I'm I talk like the same way I was narrating the experiences that happened yesterday. I talk to a lot, the same way. I don't say I need to have a specific time and have wudu and pray, and I don't do that. I just talk to him like anytime I'm in the car. Maybe people think that this person is talking to them. I talk to Allah. You see this happening right like I, my conversation is embodied to that. So daily I talk to Allah.
Speaker 3:So it's not like I have zikr time or I have the time that I read Quran and sometimes I'm not even consistent with zikr or Quran but the conversation with him. When I'm driving, especially if I notice it's raining, I take advantage of that right. If my if coming home from work because I take a longer route, it's 30 minutes drive home, I take advantage of that right. If my day is really hard, I, before I even play anything audio, I'm like you, just have to have conversation, because I'm not gonna call somebody vent about it, about the day. I don't do that. I just vent to Allah and I just talk to Him the way I would talk to a person, mashallah. So and I think that is again, I'm not romanticizing this it's been a journey. It's been the most difficult journey to be, knowing that. I'm not saying future is going to be easy. All I know is that regardless got me.
Speaker 2:That's what I know you know, the whole time when you were talking, um, I kind of was just like realizing that is my relationship, like I always, you know I I always say, like you know, I don't feel like the most religious person in the room ever, but I've always had that like very intense connection since I was a kid yeah with allah, because I used to talk to myself at at home when I'm washing dishes, but I'm literally just like you know, and I'm just like talking to allah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, this is happening, I really need this or something, and that's like it's weird and I still, to a degree, I always felt like shame about it Because I don't like I have like literal monologues. When I'm cleaning my house and Jeylan walks down the stairs, he's like who are you talking?
Speaker 3:to.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm just thinking out loud leave me alone, but I'm literally having these conversations, and it most of the time. You know, when they say like, when you write something, read it out loud. It helps you understand. Like, or helps you like write it better and process it better.
Speaker 2:I think, like saying it out loud and having that conversation I think that's the best conversation you can have is because there is no judgment. There is no judgment, there is no bias. The answer is not like someone is not like trying to like listening to respond. Right, you're just, you really have this like complete attention and just an ear, like that's, and with the person that could do it all, like that could fix it all, not person, but you know what I mean. Yeah, so I think yeah, I just want to like comment on that, like how freeing that is and like how, like, yeah, like I think yeah, because sometimes people also, like you said, they over complicate that conversation.
Speaker 2:In the sense like I have to be in this, I have to make udu, I have to be in this, I have to make udu, I have to be. Yes, that's great too, but you could also just talk to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's been my year yeah, that's beautiful. I think when you like can feel allah swt's presence, you're definitely less alone because even now you know we have this, not phenomenon, but, like a lot of people express, that even when they have people around them and you know they have a big family and stuff like that, you could still feel alone. I felt that you know.
Speaker 3:The thing is that I felt those experiences. I felt that for a reason, and I discovered this year with growth that there's a reason why Allah is secluding you with growth, that there's a reason why Allah is secluding you. Why not discover what that reason is, instead of trying to fulfill it with dunya things to make you feel better? Because unless you figure it out, whatever that is for you, no matter what you put in those places, nothing is going to satisfy you.
Speaker 3:It's the same thing that I told you back in the day. I think loneliness is for a reason. I think it's how do we embrace loneliness? Because loneliness is meant for a lot. You need to figure it out that, even in therapy I talk about clients with that. It's like what is it that you're trying to fill in that place? Because that place is meant for a reason and people can fill it for temporary.
Speaker 3:If you can be alone in the large family spaces that you feel supposed to be safe in and you feel alone in that space, you're not fulfilled there. What are you supposed to fulfill that right? It's like asking yourself that and I feel like whoever's listening to this like re-evaluate what that means to you. Because I think the idea of loneliness, the world's not supposed to fulfill you at all. The world's supposed to make you feel like nothing is satisfying enough Except Allah, except Allah. And that's when you feel like you're much more at peace. And again, that peace is similar to Iman it's not consistent, it's not going to be reliable, it's going to go up and down, but it's for you to keep searching and keep working on trying to find a place for it yeah, and I think the only thing I would add to that is that um to allah, and his dean did tell us how to do that too.
Speaker 1:you know, like there's specific dua you can make, there's quran that you can read, um, and if you, you know, you can definitely talk to him, to Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, but there's also ways that he wants you to do that too. I just want to put that out there as well. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to just add to what the Habib was saying and just the validation aspect of it.
Speaker 2:Where, you know, I think it was like 10, 15 years ago, there was a research done on hospice patients that have that are like dying, hospice patients that have, uh, that are like dying, and, um, those that have, um, those that have faith and those that are like that that don't believe in anything, and there was a lot of like their, their passing, and also even the healing sometimes no, that's not, you know and the sick people that are healing, those that have faith, they tend to heal faster, and those that are in hospice and dying tend to die more peacefully because of the Qadr Allah aspect of it, and those that don't tend to, always it gets to get a little bit complicated, the sickness gets a little bit complicated and the death gets a little bit harder because they're like I have so many unfinished business. I have this to do I have that to do.
Speaker 2:Who's gonna take care of this person and that person? And they're because god, that allah part is not there. There is that jinky that comes at the moment of death, right? Um, and I also wanted to kind of add to the idea of you know, just qatar, allah is not just in the big, in the small and the big things, it's also in the small things and the small decisions.
Speaker 2:Um, I think when we realize and I think, uh, for me, this has they started dying when I was 10 sorry, dark human, when I was 10, so I that that that Allah aspect somehow, I think that was Allah's gift for me to be able to go through everything, because I always just process what I can and I think that's also part of my fast processing thing is like I can, and I think that's also part of my fast processing thing.
Speaker 2:It's like I can only think about the things that I have control over, and then the rest is like I just say, allah, if this is good for me, let it happen. If this is not good for me, don't let it happen. If it doesn't work, it's not meant for me, right? And in that space of you know the conversation that you were earlier mentioning, like that conversation that you were earlier mentioning of which is what, which is, you know, when you put something else, because we I think this was like 15 years ago now that conversation, yeah, I think, um, you know, I was in a really, really dark place and Taibbi told me um, I think you're feeling the way you're feeling because you have something or someone in this space that was meant for Allah, right, and when you, like you guys were saying when you take that thing out, and you put Allah in everything kind of the world is not.
Speaker 2:you know, the universe is not heliocentric, it should be Allah-centric right. So, like when your world kind of revolves around the thoughts of Allah, the relationship with Allah, what Allah needs, what Allah not needs, what Allah wants from you and all of these things and what you need from Allah, and it kind of just goes. Your need for people and your need for affirmations from people, validations from people, from society, from family, kind of goes away.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um that, that that freedom also gets rid of that loneliness, because loneliness come, loneliness is unexpressed needs yeah right and expressed there's a vacancy, that that it's an echo of that vacancy yeah so once that's filled with allah, then you know, um, yeah, anyway. So I just I just want to kind of validate that and I just want to talk about the you know, wise wisdom that you gave me 15 years ago applies for me too, so now that we talked about 2024, I'm sure unless you want to add a little bit more about your 2024, then we can go to 2025.
Speaker 1:No, I can save it for next time, alright so for 2025 individually. I know, save it for next time, okay, alright, so for 2025 individually.
Speaker 2:I know that you mentioned a little bit about the things that you wanted to do in 2025. By the way, I don't know what time it is, so I think we're a little over. Okay, really fast everybody.
Speaker 1:I think we need another episode for 2025 yeah, okay, then we'll do that, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, well, it's been an amazing recap yeah, I think it's a good place to leave it. Yeah, Like reflection, yeah, Thinking about the next year and just being grateful and with all the challenges that we've gone through this year, Alhamdulillah. All the challenges that we've gone through this year, Alhamdulillah. You know, I think sometimes you are tested with to see how dedicated you are and how you know, and sometimes you are tested because Allah might want to increase you in rank. Yeah, you know. So, Alhamdulillah for that. This year. It's like I said earlier, you know it's definitely it's been a challenge, but alhamdulillah, we are on the other side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also wanted to kind of just wrap up this episode by talking about our podcast and our season thus far. You know, this season we were able to kind of push ourselves a little bit harder and a little bit deeper into topics that we really found to be difficult and taboo and, uh, things that we wanted to be addressed in our community. Uh, we hope we did them justice.
Speaker 2:Um may Allah accept our duas and our niyyah for that, um, we hope that you know they were beneficial, or they were a starting point for you guys and for 2025, inshallah, may Allah also help us make it better and bigger and help us have an impact that is of substance Meaningful and meaningful that resonates with our audience.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, this has been difficult conversations see ya assalamualaikum. Join the conversation in the comment section or on our instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change. Mbc.
Speaker 3:All relation to MBC.