Difficult Conversations
Difficult Conversations
Parenting and Mindfulness
This episode explores the emotional complexities of parenting, highlighting anxiety, the impact of mental health, and the importance of open communication. We emphasize healthy coping strategies and the necessity of fostering emotional safety for children while navigating challenges within familial relationships.
• Discussing anxiety and fears in parenting
• The importance of self-reflection and mental health
• Strategies for emotional regulation during crises
• Creating open communication channels with children
• Addressing intergenerational parenting styles and their impacts
• Valuing process over outcomes in child-rearing
• Self-compassion and understanding as a parent
• The necessity of setting boundaries for children and parents
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Assalamualaikum welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education.
Speaker 3:Hello everybody, you know, actually I wanted to tell you, to ask you guys, a few questions about something that happened to me this yesterday. About something that happened to me yesterday I took my daughter to the emergency room because she had a high fever and hives and all of these things, and then I was thinking about a statement.
Speaker 1:So what did they say in the air?
Speaker 3:Oh, they just said that she was negative for COVID, negative for RSV, negative for influenza. But they said there's something going on with kids, like something going around like some sort of virus or whatever, and she must have just got caught it. Um, so they just told us to like we paid how many, how much money to be told to take ibuprofen. And I'm telling you no, but it makes me feel like okay, at least you, least you know she's okay. Because it was really, really freaky.
Speaker 3:And I remembered a statement a friend of mine actually told me way before I think I was pregnant at the time with my first son, and she said being a parent is the only mental illness everyone voluntarily signs up for. Mental illness everyone voluntarily signs up for because, like you will like lose sanity over like the smallest things. You will never gain the same level of, um, certainty. You are always worried, anxious, you know attachment, you know all of those things. Like you have to figure out how to have a healthy attachment with your kids, not to be either super attached to a point where they're, you know, dependent on you all the time, and so on and so forth. And I thought it was like that is. That is a very dark way of looking at parenting, but it's true, like that's the only kind of parenting that people you know. Just it's, just yeah, because, like, if I yeah.
Speaker 4:I wonder how are you feeling about the fact that that's what you had to deal with last night? Yeah. And this morning coming to the show and like recording and that state of mind and like how are you doing?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm okay. I mean, it's great that we're talking about mental health today, because I have a lot of material for it, but I think the fact that I'm, like I said, I have a very dark perspective on things like my brain, goes to worst case scenarios. So, especially when my kids are sick, that's when my I can't seem to have control over, like my dark thoughts, um, so I'm. It's really really toxic and it's really debilitating sometimes because, like with, with, I told you guys, like well, not told you guys knew about this. When my son had his febrile seizure at at the osborne soccer game while I was there, and now everything was happening, my brain was already processing his funeral. I was like, wow, okay, this is happening. He's like, literally, you know, we're just like it's weird, like I astral project in a way, and that happens. So, um, and I'm, I'm just like, okay, this is happening, he's, he's okay. I have to figure it out, like in this, you know, and it's just so weird, and I, my brain starts.
Speaker 4:It's like a montage of spaces where, um, do you kind of go blank, or do you?
Speaker 3:kind of oh, I wish blank was great, like say, like no, I literally will have it. You know how people say my life flashed before my eyes, everyone that I love when they are in trouble. Their life flashes before my eyes and I start seeing everything that I love about them, everything that I'm going to miss about them. All of these things start playing and that is like in a minute, in a spark of like a second. A second it's.
Speaker 3:It's very, very like and so it's like I am, and and it's crazy is that I'm also while I'm saying this, it doesn't sound real, but I'm really really good in crisis like I am the one that's like if something happens, like what, I'm the one that's like jumping in, doing things, except I think the only time I ever froze when was because of you. I don't know why, but at the house oh yeah, to this day, my trauma with that.
Speaker 1:I can't eat alone.
Speaker 4:I swallow so slowly.
Speaker 3:Yes, like I, literally I just jump in and I'm very calculated. I'm like move dude. Yeah, why did you froze that day? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I was holding her daughter the baby that she's talking about and we were just kind of hanging out and then I was really hungry and so I took a bite of Sambusa and Sambusa like the tail one of the part of it it got stuck in my throat and for the first time in my life I was choking on food. Like it literally happened like a movie.
Speaker 1:Were you talking at the same time? No, she was by herself.
Speaker 4:It was me, and the baby was sitting in the couch in the couch area, the living room area okay and then, like I couldn't, I was weaseling, yeah, kind of like that, because there's no air, yeah it felt like I don't, I swear I was gonna die too. I literally, I literally went into it like somebody hold the baby. Yeah, as long as I don't drop the baby, I'm okay, everything is okay. Right like, it's not about me, it's about the baby. Well, like when?
Speaker 3:she says I just want to save this. She literally it was crazy. She was like here, hold the baby. And I mean she didn't say it, but she was just, and I didn't understand Because, like I could see, I thought it was just like she like like misbreath, like like mis-breath, I don't know whatever it's called when you know when you breathe in, it takes a second, yeah, yeah. So she handed me the baby and I took the baby and I was just going to go about my day and she's like, yeah.
Speaker 4:And then I came to you and then didn't, and I gave you the baby.
Speaker 1:The thing is I don't remember was that you were, I went.
Speaker 4:African style my CPR training went on oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I think my arsonist takes over.
Speaker 4:No, but yeah that feeling is still kind of like tightness in my gut and it's like it twists a little bit, but it's also like every time I chew. Right now at our home somebody said this on TikTok. She said that you know, the scariest thing about living by yourself is that you can choke on food and nobody will find out.
Speaker 1:And then I was like okay great You're like another fear unlocked Exactly.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't mind, but talking about it, it's like we're talking about being frozen in a state of mind with kids, like what Bonnie was saying, like she's a mother and I wasn't, but the first thought is like, please take care of the baby. Yeah, right, and that was it.
Speaker 3:And I felt, of course the hero jumped in to save your boat and she was like did that?
Speaker 1:have a maneuver, yeah. But the thing is, though, I think for me, like because of like my background, respiratory and stuff like that, like whenever I'm in public, I'm always I go through scenarios in my head. I'm like, okay, if somebody, if I have to do CPR, what's the first thing I have to do? So then I go through that like, um, the CPR training. It's like, oh, step one, step two, so that's how, like my brain works. Yeah, I'm always like, okay, if this happens if you're out and about, if you're on the plane, what would you do first?
Speaker 3:yeah, you know I that's one of the reasons actually I didn't want to go into medical field, because you know, like if you're a nurse or rt or if you're a doctor and something, and you have to do something you have to do something legally otherwise you'll be held liable, right if I, if I'm not mistaken, something like that.
Speaker 1:I'm not exactly sure, but as a human like you'd want to do something, but I know myself Like my brain is weird.
Speaker 3:I know I'm saying a bunch of oxymoronic stuff, but I do tend to respond to stuff, but then when it's life-threatening things, I guess I don't do as well as I thought life-threatening things.
Speaker 1:It's I, I guess I don't do very as well as I thought. So then, as a parent, I want to ask you like okay, so now you know your child has, um, he had that seizure and stuff like that. How do you think it? It will affect your child in the long run if you know you have your, your type of parent who's like, oh my god, you God, you know like and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Well, that's the thing is that as parents, we have to always be aware of our responses. Not just responses, but our triggers, our emotional capabilities and so on and so forth. So my thing is that I started going to therapy right before while I was pregnant because I knew A. I'm going to parent from pregnant because I knew a. I'm going to parent from a space of fear. I'm going to parent from a space of trauma. I'm going to parent from a space of um, I guess my fear was that either my kids were going to turn out to be brats and I've said this a long time because I'm like just giving them everything out of love or I'm sheltering them so much that they're going they're not going going to be really exposed to like life and life's obstacles and hardships and you know all of those things. So the only way that I can fix that is before it gets there. I have to work on why. You know the reasons to my response to my kids. So parents have to make sure they have to understand.
Speaker 3:Why do I feel this anxiousness around my kids? Why do I feel the need to control their? They have to understand. Why do I feel this anxiousness around my kids. Why do I feel the need to control their world, or to control their you know, the need for a rational level of safety and figuring that out, making sure they have a really good coping mechanism for those things, and then obviously it will show up. And then and then obviously it will show up. Like I said, I have been in therapy for five years now and I'm still you know, it's still showing up for me, right? So what I do is that I just make sure I step back. Okay, I am experiencing these things and hopefully, of course, I am having these conversations with my kids. Hey, it's not you. It's not that you are doing anything wrong or you are an unsafe child, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 1:It's just that I have anxious attachment right now with you, you know I think like I think for me, I'm that parent that just lets them figure it out, like, whatever the situation is say, my son falls, hits his head. My daughter, you know, is jumping off or doing all these things. I'm always the one that's like you know is jumping off or doing all these things. I'm always the one that's like you know what, you fell down. Then I wait until they come to me and ask me for help, you know, until my kids know that if it really hurt, they'll be like mommy, you know this really really hurt, you know and I do, you know, offer comfort and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So but I think a good balance between you know running to them when they need help and also just letting them figure it out allows them to build that resilience and work through their problems.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, are you guys? So my question is that what does healthy parenting looks like for you guys in that sense, mental health kind of in your radar, when you are raising them, when you are interacting with them, when you are experiencing your own internal agitation, frustration, do you think about, like, how do I navigate? And if I do kind of like, let's say, for example, lash out or say something to my kids, do I go back, talk to them about, saying you know, know, I'm sorry, I wasn't supposed to do that and I did it because of x, y and z reason, but mommy or daddy would be mindful of it next time. Like what would that look like?
Speaker 1:as far as, like, healthy parenting looks like when raising your kids, that who is emotionally like aware of their feelings, that I'm not the causation of mommy's reaction towards me, I think for me, um, you know it takes because, okay, for example, this morning, I was really really frustrated because, you know, my kids were upstairs, they were trying to brush their teeth and all that stuff, and so they kept calling me and they're like mommy can help me, come do this, but I was already downstairs, you know, preparing breakfast and stuff like that. So I kept like, and then finally I did go upstairs and I, you know, preparing breakfast, um, and stuff like that. So I kept like, and, and then finally I did go upstairs and I, you know, I was like, and it showed on my face that I was really irritated by the whole situation, um, and my kids are kind of, I would say, more attached to me, and so they're like no, I don't want, you know, I don't want daddy to do it, I want you to do it, or whatever, um, and so, and then my other daughter she had madrasa this morning and she just did not want to go to the madrasa. Because I was like, you know, you have to go, your younger sister doesn't, you know, she's not going to madrasa today. And so she threw a big fit and I just kind of like, held her and I was like you know what you are going, you know, and gave her the eyes and she just sped off and went to her room.
Speaker 1:So then later on, you know, driving to Madrasa, I was like you know. So then I explained it to her. Why that? You know, because her sister, she's not learning anything right now. You know, she's four and you're seven, six, almost going to seven, so it's a requirement for her and not for you. So us talking about it, then finally she's like you know what, I'm glad she's not here. I was like why she's like you know, because every time we're in madrasa she's always like you know, pulling my hair and or taking my hijab or whatever. Um, and so she, she understood why she had to go and her younger sister didn't have to go and she actually liked that in the end. So you know, I would say, just talking through it with your kids, you know, and it's not, we're not perfect, you know, we're human beings, we're all. We're dealing with our own issues and, at the same time, trying to raise kids that are resilient and able to withstand you know stressful situations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I guess. Let me ask you a few questions In addition. So what would you be? What would you say like in everyday, in your everyday interaction with your kids, like when you're thinking of like, okay, I want to make sure that I am raising emotionally stable, emotionally intelligent some, you know, kids that are able to regulate their emotions well, how would you, how, what are the everyday activities that you do, everyday interactions that you do like to make sure that they are able to navigate those, those spaces, even, you know, in their highly emotional state?
Speaker 1:so one thing i've've been reading this book that I keep talking about how to Raise, the Danish Way of Raising Parents or Kids or whatever and one thing that I found fascinating in that book is how to use play as a way for kids to regulate their emotions, and so every day I've tried to make it a habit to turn off the TV and just let them play Like, because when they play they get into especially when they have siblings they get into fights, they get into disagreements and stuff like that. And it says how, like you know, when you play you activate the same neurochemicals as stress, and so when the kids are exposed to that, they are able to find ways to regulate it instead of avoid it. Yeah, and so over time, when they grow up, they're able to regulate their stress by themselves in times of stress. So, that's.
Speaker 1:That's helped us out a lot, and days that I am doing something and I want them that I allow them to watch a little bit more TV. I can sense it in their behavior, you know, and how they're kind of a little bit more irritable or not.
Speaker 3:So like they don't. When you see what you preach, yeah, it's so beautiful, because I see. So Sami loves hair Like she's turning one in like three days and she loves hair. She doesn't have any hair right now and she just so she grabs Nafi's hair and she like loves yanking on it. So she sees how I respond, nafi sees how I respond when Sami pulls my hair and she really has a grip, that girl, and she's like so I'm like Sami, please. You know this hurts mommy, and I'm just I'm doing like demonstrative modeling, right? So I'm like Sami, this hurts mommy's hair, please don't. And I'm just walking, like you know, undoing her fingers for my hair. So to this morning, actually, sami had grabbed nafi's like ponytail and she had like and her curls and like all hair and through all. So she's like sami, please don't do this. I'm your sister, this. This hurts me.
Speaker 3:This hurts my hair and she's like pulling it like this and then Yusuf came and he said Sami, don't do this to our sister.
Speaker 3:And then it was like oh my god, it's working and it's I don't think. I always say, like you know, obviously we don't make our little sister cry, we don't, sami's just a baby. But I don't remember exactly having that conversation of like, talk to her like this or don't you know, but like they just see me do whenever she does it to me, and I was like that's how, like that's how kids learn. It's just that demonstration of they do what you do, not necessarily always what you say to do.
Speaker 4:Modeling does help. So I'm basically hearing that you having a different perspective of parenting and then also emphasizing the openness and emotionally supporting your kids is the way to kind of create that environment for them. Also, like if you're just like adult, have emotional dysregulations moment, which is like agitation and frustration and irritability, and and some days like you're in a rush and you have schedules and places to go and your kid is giving you that morning right Like in that moment, what does it look like to support them and regulate them in that space?
Speaker 3:That actually happens a lot in my house with Yusuf and my husband and what we try to do. One that happens a lot when they're when their routine changes. Um, you see, yusuf is very routine oriented, so he likes to do his, you know, wake up, brush his teeth first and then fix his bed and then get his clothes done, and so if you say, hey, I'm gonna do your bed and you can go, you know, because we're late, like he is, he has a hard time with that, right. So what we do is that, okay, explaining, I think, walking them through. Hey, this, and it's hard, like sometimes you do it with a very like do you explain?
Speaker 4:in the midst of it, or do you kind of allow both? It depends, okay. Does explaining work in those moments when they're dysregulated?
Speaker 3:Well, for me, it depends on how dysregulated they are. Right, like, let's say, for example, he's like mommy, I want to do it. Okay, yusuf and Jeylan had come up with I don't know where he learned it or this thing called blow the candle, which means he puts his finger in front of Yusuf and he's like, just and like, and that helps him like breathe. And so he's like okay, blow the candle. Okay, now are you ready to listen to me? He's like, okay, yeah, in their days he says yes, in their days, he says no.
Speaker 3:If he says no, we have to go through the routine, and I mean meaning like, what we have to do, what needs to be done, and then, when we have the time, we'll go and like talk about it. And, um, one thing that's I really am enjoying right now is language, uh, which is having the language to express. So, like, useful, say something. Like, mommy, you're not listening to me. I need this to happen. And I'm like yusuf, I am listening to you.
Speaker 3:Is this what you said? Yes, okay, but I need you to understand we don't have time right now, do you? You want to be late to school? If you're late to school, you'll miss on A, b and C. So, like that, the feeling of him saying I'm not listening to you. So what's irritating him is that he feels like I'm not hearing him. I'm not taking that time. So I repeat what he said, so he has the understanding that I actually did hear you. I know what you said, but what needs to happen is this, and of course he's five, he's not going to always, you know, be on it. We go past it and then when we're in the car on our way, we will, you know.
Speaker 4:Basically just go through it. What if you?
Speaker 1:both are dysregulated. Yeah, I think for me that happens more than like you both are. Yeah, it's up there. I think for me, like I push right, Sometimes when I'm really dysregulated, I'll push back and I'll be like no, this is my way and this is what we're going to do. So I find myself doing that a lot more, and I think a good day for me is like when we don't have those outbursts. Okay, you know, when, like, we're both able to this is what I want and they get it done on on their own.
Speaker 1:And for me explaining it does not work at all, because, especially my oldest, she has learned to push back a little bit too, and I don't know if it's like because I'm more focused on the younger one now, or like I'm more. I feel like I'm more softer with my son and my daughter, because with Fatou it's her way. Or the highway Middle child, yeah, like, if she wants something and she's quick to cry, you know, she'll be like even little things. She'll be like mommy, she took my pen, then she'll start crying, right. And so I've done this bad habit where I just want her to stop crying, and so I'll be like fatia. Can you please just give it to her. Let's just get over this situation.
Speaker 4:Give it to her. Oh, so there's a rationale for you to kind of just like get rid of the discomfort that's happening. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And with the language thing. Lately, like you know, I'm always shuffling them around and like we have activities and like we're getting late for school and and stuff like that. And so I started saying you guys, we're late, let's go, you know. So then my youngest he'll be like Mommy, are we late? So then, like the other day I was thinking about it, I was like you know what, like I'm, we're not late, like why am I using this language with these kids? And because now they're, they're thinking like mommy's always rushing, like she's always rushing us out the door and and stuff like that. So that's something I have to work on.
Speaker 3:I think one we have to be a little bit more gracious to ourselves, because sometimes we most of the time we are rushing, and that understanding of like hey, we have to rush through this because we are rushing. I think we also have to give people like our kids the benefit of the doubt and the ability to be able to understand later on. Right, hey, in the bigger picture, mommy's not always rushing, you know, I really am, though.
Speaker 4:Well, well, see the thing, is that? Okay, finish your thought, because I have something to say okay um, yeah, mommy's not always rushing and she she has.
Speaker 3:we do spend a lot of quality time together. She does like she is calm and like hanging out with me most of the time when it's a free time and when it's not morning time or evening time, when we're either going somewhere or coming back from somewhere. One thing I was going to say was that we have this thing called the wall in our house when it comes to language. So I do this countdowns. So like I try to negotiate, I try to like I'm like, hey, let's do this, do that.
Speaker 1:And then I say Yusuf the wall's going to come down.
Speaker 3:So if the negotiation is not working, I'll say the wall's going to come down. Sometimes I don't even have to say the wall's going to come down, I just start counting Five, four, three. I do it obviously very slowly and they know that if the wall comes down by zero there's no more negotiations Mommy's way or the highway. So you have time until the wall comes down to be able to go something that's 50-50, 60-40, 30, you know. But the wall comes down, no negotiation. We're going to do it the hard way and I think that also helps. But then again, when it comes to the mommy guilt of like oh you know, I don't want them to feel some type of way. I always feel like I don't want them to think that I'm always super strict, like I'm always just being like, oh you know, because it sucks too when you have neighbors that seem to feel, that seem to do whatever they want to do. Right.
Speaker 3:Or like people in your life that seem to do whatever they want to do, so like they're like oh, but so and so is. We have our neighbors that are like, literally in front of us and our our sleep time is like 7 30 now, and they're out until 9 10, like just driving around now it's cold, but like they, you know, like they have motorcycles and they're like you know, and cars or whatever, and I have to, and they're literally in front of Yusuf's window and he sees them, he like, weighs in his bedroom and he opens the shutter like
Speaker 3:this and he's like watching. And I have to be like yusuf. That is their house, their rules. You know in that house that's what they do, but in this house and I have to explain that too and it's just like it doesn't help and I have guilt. I feel guilty like and now I know I'm going on a tangent, but sam nafi starts what start. She watched cinderella. So whenever I am tough, she starts calling me the stepmother, mommy's being a stepmother. It hurts so bad and I hate it. She's like Mommy's being a stepmother, it's like Cinderella.
Speaker 4:So then, what does that mean when it comes to like? There are some things that we have been raised around ourselves and based on our parents' strategies and how they raised us, and I think in our previous episode, we talked about how, in our remote culture, there's survival mechanism of like raising kids versus actually implementing this mental health strategies and making sure that we're raising emotionally regulated kids and making sure that we're raising emotionally regulated kids. What are some things that have you learned from your parents that you feel like you don't want to continue portraying that in your household?
Speaker 1:I think for me is the, I think, avoidance of emotion and just like the fact that you didn't know, like if, my if, like I feel like our parents tried to shield us in a lot of ways about, like the hard times they were having, the emotions that they were going through and their relationships, whether it was good or bad.
Speaker 1:So for me, I think I am trying to make it a point to talk to my kids about, like when I am mad, when I am sad, and they can see it on my face that I'm upset. So authenticity is something that I think I'm working on and making sure that, like, whatever conversation you have with them, it's authentic and like, okay, me and Bob are because, like my daughter, when me and her dad were, like we'll talk back, you know we're like talking back to each other and she'll come in between and she'll be like, stop arguing, you know, and so you know it's like it's not always going to be rainbows. You know there will be times where you disagree with your husband or you know, and you want them to see that in a holistic way.
Speaker 4:So does that mean that you didn't get to see it with your parents and now you're trying to avoid that for your own kids? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I feel like I grew up avoiding emotion and I'm very uncomfortable this a lot of time. But my middle one, she's full of all the emotions, and I think my older one too. She's starting to express herself in a lot of different ways. Um and so when they, when I have, I always have to stop myself and say, you know, let them express it, instead of saying Fatou, stop crying. Or like Fatou, you know, like that was, why did you do that? You know what I mean. So just letting them go through all of that and then talking to them about it yeah, it's easier said than done Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3:I grew up in a house that was a little bit different than yours in the sense that my parents fought in front of me. They made up in front of me. I saw that very much, so it was very much okay for me that even in my friendships I was so okay with fighting. We can argue, we can fight. I knew that was in the end, like as long as, of course, like I love the way they fought, like they argued, but it wasn't insults it wasn't like you know anything.
Speaker 3:It was like everybody had, like they were passionate about whatever they were talking about and but no, it wasn't. I never like heard any insults, any you know like any degrading or whatever, whatever. And I also didn't see and I don't know if this helps, but I didn't see like you know how, like in this country, they say, uh, like the husband, like the wife is always right and the husband like just says okay and whatever, like that. I didn't see like I, my dad fought, like he was, he's a very shy dude. He didn't like people wouldn't believe like he was a warrior at home, but like he literally was, just like this is what I believe, this is what it is. And then she'd be like this is what I believe, this is because of a and b and c and d and you know 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 and like and whoever had the most I, I guess right point won, not because she's his wife and he wants to cater to her, not because whatever, not because he's the husband, but whoever was the most right one. So that let me have like that, even in our house now, like when I see on social media sometimes I always tell Jaylen, I'm like dude, can you just let me be right. Like the wife is always right, but it's not like that in our house either.
Speaker 3:One thing I don't want to do, that my parents did and actually me and Javi were talking about this yesterday in the parking lot is the idea of putting emphasis on like on certain things too much to a point that your kids feel like their worth comes from that.
Speaker 3:So in my house it was a lot about education and, like my mom, whenever I brought like good grades home, it was like she was super ecstatic, like my family was super ecstatic all of them like from my grandfather and that was the same thing that's. I've heard stories about my grandpa doing the same thing to my mom. Like you know, they had like nine kids and the most favorite one that week was the kid that had the best grade. You know what I mean? Like they would get the presents and whatever, whatever. So that's kind of how my mom raised me, is. She emphasized grades, emphasized the importance of academia, our academic excellence. So I still struggle with the fact that if I'm not in school, I don't really have a really good gauge of progress, your sense of worth related to academic success.
Speaker 3:Academic success, yeah, yeah. So it's not necessarily monetary success, which is funny, but academic success. So I'm always in school, I'm always like in, you know and some, and also I'm very much in competition of myself with myself. So, like, if I feel like, which also feeds to that point of like I'm always not feeling like I'm I'm reaching my you know, doing what my best, whatever, so I there's not like an actual measurement for that?
Speaker 3:yeah, because you're constantly climbing, exactly, yeah, exactly so, um, that I don't want to do and I kind of practice that even now. My son is very studious in the sense that he is always doing homework. He, his teacher, has to hide her homework sheets. I always keep saying this like she's, when she has to hide her homework sheets that she prints out for the next day, um, or her classroom sheets, whatever. Because he take, he's like can I please take this home and do homework? Or he starts doing it while they're supposed to be playing. He's very into that and I'm like oh, that's great. But then I always make sure to give the same amount of emphasis to when he's doing chores or when he's like just being kind to his. You know like, so he knows you have to like. Your worth is not just because of your excellence or your whatever. It's spread out. I guess I want to ask us a little bit more about.
Speaker 4:I have something to say about that. Um, you so what you were sharing examples of like your generation, like how your mom's father did similar performance. Academic performance was like part of the family and it passed into your aunt and uncles, and like everybody's academic performance like the highlight of what that recognition is. Yeah, sometimes you don't have to do those things to your kids. It's automatically within your blood, and I know this one. You guys hate this, like when I say this the generational yes, Well, why you hate this?
Speaker 4:but the fact is the fact, you work really hard to try to create a better, safe environment for your kids and somehow one of your kids become very anxious, like academically worries and always apprehension about everything. It's not you doing those things, it's been happening to your mother and it's happening to your grandfather was doing that. It's because it's already in the blood and you're like but I didn't do those things to my kids. I worked really hard to make sure that I create safe space and make sure that they're safe. I did that and then you find out that, like, one of your kids has significant anxiety and one of the things that I always want to say to parents is that don't go into blaming. You are the causation of one of these experiences and like. So that is something that you have to be aware of. I want to give a little bit of example when it comes to generational stuff. There was a client who came and talked about how that she said that I always receive colds after I wash my hair and I know she gets cold cold, cold cold like fevers OK like
Speaker 4:she's like everybody in my household is fine, right, and I was like she's like in my household is fine, right, and I was like she's like my mom is fine, and I nobody talked about it. And then she later found out that her great-grandmother, when she washed her hair, she always gets similar cold, like getting fever especially what time after she was. No, no, it's like it's a fever I don't know like you can't ask client of those things, right?
Speaker 4:so what I'm trying, my point, is that generationally things happen and you know your mother doesn't have it, you know your sister doesn't have it. You try to investigate in every aspect of like where is this coming from? Why is this happening like this? It's not you.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think you know, I think with praise what helps is like in a room Correct me if I'm wrong with this in your. I think what helps is if you praise the process and not necessarily like the result. You know, and I think with my kids I'm always like like when Dia does homework and stuff and she gets something wrong, we go like OK, yeah, you did this part right and you know, kind of spelling out that it's this thing that you're doing, that's right, not necessarily attaching it to them as a person, like calling them smart and this and that I wouldn't call kids smart, because the smartness was eventually attached again with their sense of self-worth it's kind of saying, wow, look at you, you work really hard and you figure that out on your own.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that process must be really difficult. Look at you what you could do. Right. It's kind of like giving them the strength like, oh, if I can do those difficult thing, I can do anything else. Does that make not just limited to this exactly? So the process is the best aspect to encourage them, the validation that they deserve and the validation like I am so proud of you. Validation is also like the ownership goes back to the person who's proud.
Speaker 1:Not that they are proud of themselves. Like taking ownership of your own emotions.
Speaker 4:Yes. So when the kid says, oh, my mom is proud of me, so what else can I do to get that proud? Right? What else can I do? So then the external validation increases more, right? How can I get more validation that feels safe for me? So if you said, are you proud of yourself for doing this? And then if the kid says, yes, I am so, then that means that it's internal mapping, internal regulations.
Speaker 1:Oh that, if the kid says, yes, I am so, then that means that it's internal mapping internal regulations, oh that whole external internal locus of control aspect of it exactly so like how do we manage?
Speaker 3:that is by trying to, like you said, process is what we want acknowledge the the how, the difficulty, how they overcame those things, not the fact that they are those specific quality to describe them, if that makes sense I not a pushback, but I guess an addition or maybe a pushback, just because I um kind of have been reading a lot of books, like I'm sure I was saying about, and one of the things that I was learning and I kind of practice in my house is the spreading of praise, like across all fields.
Speaker 3:But I think when it comes to language, that's what I want to. Maybe that pushback part comes in is that you know how you guys said don't say you're smart, and I think you don't want, like being smart or being beautiful or being, you know, mommy's proud of you and daddy's proud of you, we're always proud of you. You don't want that to come from an outside source first. So not putting an extra emphasis on or an extra importance on the fact that they're smart and spreading that everywhere, like you know, like your attention or your praise, not being on that word alone takes the pressure off of them only identifying with that word as their self-worth. But the hearing that word come from you, someone that they trust, and you acknowledging the fact that they are smart actually helps them in the long run and because they feel like, um, they, they.
Speaker 3:Next time someone says you know, and that goes a lot with beauty when it comes to girls too um, is that when next time someone says, even at work or at school, someone tells, oh, you're smart, they're not gonna say, oh, you think so it's more of I know yeah, and they feel it, but that's the thing right, so like if the children receive the level of safety and as already at home, they don't need to seek out a side. Yeah, absolutely Exactly.
Speaker 4:So it's like what the conversation related to overpraising is something that you also talk about is that the ownership of their validation. It should come from themselves. Does that make sense Internally, even though the first messaging should be coming from the home. They should recognize those things eventually on their own, and I think like when it comes to beauty.
Speaker 1:So my middle daughter has like longer hair, right Longer, and it's a little softer than my oldest, and so a lot of the times my oldest will be like you know, fatou's hair is so much prettier, you know. And so in my middle one, she really doesn't care. You know, fatou's hair is so much prettier, you know. And so in my middle one, she really doesn't care, you know, she's not, she, she, I don't think she's not even aware, she's not even aware of that.
Speaker 1:And so what I've started to do is to say, you know, compliment Dia on her hair and be like, wow, you know, I wish my hair was like yours, and you know, and kind of get her into because she's here, right, she, she doesn't believe that her hair is beautiful, um, and she's kind of and I can see it too when I'm washing their hair and stuff she's kind of looking at her sisters and like, oh, wow, you know. And so I think building that first um step of saying your hair is beautiful too, um, is really, really important, because then, then, because now she'll start to do her hair and you know, she's into that whole like makeup and you know, and stuff like that, yeah, and also like for.
Speaker 3:So in in in our household when, like before they go to sleep, they have this mantra that they go around I am beautiful, I am kind, I am nice, I am worthy, I am smart. And that's why I always say you know and um they, they, and then mom and mommy's so proud of me and I am proud of me and daddy is so proud of me and I am loved and like literally.
Speaker 3:That's like they say that and then they make their dua and then they go to sleep so like right, instead of like reading books. That is beautiful. So we do that like literally every day. So the reason why I try to implement that a lot is because you say it enough.
Speaker 3:You believe it a lot is because you say it enough if you believe it, and you know your thoughts create your, you know your sorry, your words create your thoughts, your thoughts create your emotions, and so on and so forth. So I just want to build that of like yes, being smart is not the only factor, um, the only identifying factor, the only thing that's worthy. But your beauty is not the only thing that's worthy, and the thing is too.
Speaker 3:You speak it into existence yeah, absolutely I see this a lot in my household, where I I, when they do something unkind or linked to each other, they're being and I say, wow, you know what I love about my kids? They're just so kind to each other and then they love each other. So much you're building and you see it like they start playing.
Speaker 1:They start playing together, better they start playing together better Versus me being like. Which I do that too sometimes when it gets a little irritating.
Speaker 3:You know, and that time they're more. They are more scared of like mommy, coming in to disrupt or to fix Versus. When I'm like doing this praise of like oh, you're so kind to each other, that makes me so happy for you, then they are like, oh, okay, let's play into this thing that mommy has spoken into. How would you guys say the next?
Speaker 3:The question that I was going to ask was building the emotional safety in the household. I'm sure I know you touched a little bit about that. I'm sure I know you touched a little bit about that. But like when, when they are not, how do how, how comfortable, how? I still don't know how to do this and maybe this goes, goes to you then more than I'm sure but like, how are we able to have them express their discomfort, like their discomfort, dislike this, you know, whatever, without being disrespectful, right, like creating that emotional safe space to be authentically them and you know, so that later on they don't feel this hesitation and people pleasing thing to you know, in their workplace, in their school, whatever, how? What are some practices I guess parents can implement in their household?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, first and foremost, I want to ask you guys, what is the definition of disrespect for you as a parent, right? What does that look like for you as a parent? And once you figure that out, what is the discomfort for you as a parent, right? What makes you feel uncomfortable and what are those things that you're like? Oh, I don't even know much about this and I think a lot of times parents project their own fear to their kids in many aspects of it. It's like, let's say, for example, if your children six, seven years old brought up sex and talk about sex, it's something that they just heard from their friend. Right, mommy, what this means as you, what were you doing that day? I would freak out Another one. Here's another one. Here's another one. What if you find out your seven-year-old boy or girl seen pornography and you catch?
Speaker 3:that I'm moving countries Right.
Speaker 1:I think it depends, like in what context Was it? Like did they type it in themselves, or like was somebody in the house watching that? You know what I mean, that you don't know, or the exposure.
Speaker 4:Let's say the exposure. You saw something that they're watching. They didn't know that. You know how some internet is wild, plays right.
Speaker 1:I'm giving you guys a very actually. Yeah, that's true, because like even youtube, you know like does it?
Speaker 4:yeah, like not pornography, but like there's nudity in some aspect of things that kids can come across and like wow, right, like I think so.
Speaker 1:Last week, my kids, um, and I and I we had to talk about it and everything, but they were watching these dolls and the dolls like it was like these cartoons or whatever, and it's like you know how, like they have like there's a hand or something, I don't know they're doing something, but the dolls were pregnant and they were giving birth or whatever. Yeah, like pregnant dolls, and I was, and I like I just froze, I was like what are they? Are they watching that? That right there, you know, and so, and I think, um, that meaning I banned YouTube for like a week because we're done that, let's move, let's pack that's funny.
Speaker 3:Uh, I not youtube related stuff, but my son went to school and then the next day like not even the next day that when we picked him up he said what? And he dropped the f. I was in jayland, said he pulled the car over because one we know. Like when he went to school he didn't know that word, that word yeah we like.
Speaker 3:He still like. Goes at me when I because I say what the heck a lot, and he's like mommy, don't say what the heck that's a bad, because we have. So he first. We had to figure out where that language came from. And second, we had to explain like hey, you know that's not good language.
Speaker 3:You know, if you feel frustrated or whatever, you should use different language. And Jaylan said he literally pulled the car over. Because one thing I genuinely believe in is like not postponing things. I catch it, it, address it and also your response to it. I feel like emotional attachment when it comes to actions right like and I've talked about this before like the kids can pick up on your reaction yeah, this is serious.
Speaker 3:Okay, my dad pulled the car over and he turned around and he's talking to me about this. That's, that's serious. So he's like where did you hear it? And he's like my friend blah blah blah at school said it on the playground. He's like okay.
Speaker 3:So I want to tell you this you know this is not a really good phrase and Alhamdulillah we haven't gotten to that part, that crazy, you know like YouTube part, yet but you know we don't say that. I think if let's say, I see my kids going through that, I don't know if I told you guys that actually happened to me. Like when I was in high school I was watching porn but my computer got a virus because I was watching a movie on.
Speaker 3:You know, those One, two, three movies Is it what it's called, like the ripoff movies, the bootleg movies, yeah so the virus came in through there and I literally was watching a very I don't even remember a very innocent pg movie. Okay, I think it was princess protection program, selena gomez and demi lovato. I like that movie and I literally was watching that. Why would you like that movie? It was like on everywhere. No, it wasn't because I didn't have any like. I was only allowed to watch tv like two days on on on. Well, this wasn't at this back home.
Speaker 2:No, here, this was in high school I was only allowed to watch on thursdays for vampire diaries.
Speaker 3:That hour was saved, so I couldn't watch anything on tv yet, okay. So anyway, long story short. I was watching that and then all of the sudden, and this thing comes up and Ismo's walking up the stairs Behind me, no, and then Imagine I'm watching this movie on my computer With the normal speed. I mean not speed. Sound.
Speaker 3:Sound with the normal speed of. I mean not speed but sound of like loud, because I have nothing to be hiding, you know. And then all of a sudden, this lady's like, and she's all leg up and that's the first private part of someone else that I've ever seen in my life. And my uncle, he just looked at me and he just ran to the spectrum. See, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:It's all about reaction. Yeah, we either fight or fright, oh my god yeah so we either fight or flight.
Speaker 3:I would I literally slammed the computer and I said it wasn't me oh my, my God.
Speaker 1:I will say, though, like, when it comes to, you know, creating safety for your kids, you do have to like, as uncomfortable as it is, you do have to talk about this in your house before they experience it out there, because imagine, like I think my worst fear would be if my child went through something. You know, somebody did something to them, and they did not have the language and they did not have the comfortability or the safety to come to me and say you know, mama, this happened to me yeah, and I think, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Just want to add to that uh one the way we are able to do this and to build that is by making sure there's an open line of communication through the small things, right, um, and I think we've spoken about this before. Like, I learned this actually from my grandmother and she would tell my aunts that if school, if anything happens, just come to my house, it's fine, come home. Anything, anyone does anything. Come home. The school is. You know you're late to school and the school doors go back home. You know, once you're late to school, you can't go in you. They close the door.
Speaker 3:So normally what other kids used to do is that they would just walk around. Do you know, do other things. She's like just come home, you won't get in trouble. If you did something and you know you you need help, just come home, I won't punish you, just tell me what's going on, I'm there. And that aspect of it, like even now, opening that line of communication and being like just be straightforward, we'll have a conversation, I'll be able to help you out versus, um, you know, just being like harping on everything, because if you react on, if your kid took a cookie from the cookie jar and you make a big deal out of it. Next time, he's not not not gonna take the cookie from the cookie jar, he's just gonna figure out a way to do it without you knowing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so to answer you guys a question that you ask. It's about your reactions, it's about how you are regulated enough with the discomfort that arises. It's about your tone of voice when your child's doing a specific act or things that you actually don't agree with. And this is a point of the conversation. So the way to create emotional safety is just more like, if I'm being triggered, how can I regulate myself before I engage in this conversation with my child? Right? Do I react and be frustrated and be irritated and then respond based on that?
Speaker 4:And another thing that comes with that is that in our culture is what we do? Is that how pressure and pressure and hushing, secrecy and then shame kind of develop. Right, things happens and we don't address it. We like we either embarrass the person, humiliate them, right, and then tell them why did you do that, this, this? And they start going into attacking. Like, for example, what you were sharing earlier. If your uncle saw you and just went, added you right at that moment and kind of like when, braided you really aggressively, what did you do? Like, right? You know, if he had said that, like that's I mean if he did that right I'd just cry Exactly, she will go into the shame of the whole thing. That one I didn't do it. Secondly, I'm not watching it. And third, this is really bad, you don't trust me because it goes back to like what kind of person do you think I am?
Speaker 3:You don't trust me. The notion of who I am Instead of him saying like, okay, I saw that.
Speaker 4:I'm going to pretend like I didn't see it right now, but then I'm going to have a conversation with her about it. So then it's like if you came in in the room and said you know I wasn't watching it and this is what happened, and clarified, then oh, okay, well, thank you for explaining that. I didn't assume anything bad about you, right?
Speaker 1:If that was done, bonnie would never have any negative thought about the whole experience, and I think the whole shaming and like throwing things under the rug in our culture is huge, you know, because so many things happen and we almost blame the victim.
Speaker 4:Yes, and many expect that we do yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I know that. You know, in this episode we don't really have time to go into all of that. Yeah, but should we wrap it up a little bit?
Speaker 4:um, I think we still have a couple more things that we want to talk about, like ways that criticism and shame and performing or the factors you know even that a little bit yes and how that affect us, like when, when we talk about earlier, like part of the emotional safety again, is that how do we talk about not shaming, embarrassing our children, right?
Speaker 4:What does shaming and embarrassing our children impact them as an adult, right? As a teenager, the way they interact in their own worlds and how that affects them with interpersonal relationships. In that sense, I don't think we talk about it enough. When you guys are already, like now, you two or anyone who's listening to this episode if you are already implementing some sort of safety right now, right, meaning things are a lot more smoother for them, right? Versus somebody who is not even aware of all these possibilities and how to create a safe space for their children, and then, all of a sudden, they're like just parenting out of fear, out of authority and out of like not have the patient to navigate a discomfort and dysregulation that occurred.
Speaker 1:And I would say that kids, they are really smart when it comes to these things. I remember an incident where I was talking to my sister, my siblings, and my daughter was there and I didn't realize that she was there in the room with us and so I was telling them oh, you know, the past weekend Dia did A, b and C, and you know, and I was just talking about you know, and it wasn't it wasn't something bad, but it was uncomfortable for my daughter. So then later on, when we went home, she told me you know what, mommy, I don't like how you told auntie what happened. You know, that was very embarrassing and so it was really uncomfortable for me. But I had to sit with that emotion and to you know realize. I told her you know what, I'm so sorry that I did that Next time I won't share, you know, if you don't want me to share something. So building that comfort and safety for them, I think, is a good way to start.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think also the idea of making sure that there's boundaries and rails and safety mechanisms they build for themselves as much as we build for them right. And also we have to give them agency right. Yeah, we have to give them agency right. One thing I have been really good at and I think we kind of have been talking about this again and I try to take whatever we talk about and implement it in my life is that being able to say hey, do you want to hug? So-and-so, do you want to give so-and-so a hug? Do you want to say hi to so-and-so? Hey, do you want to do this? Hey, can I come in your room? I know, you know. Can I come in your room? Hey, you know, can Sami sorry for Nafi, can Sami borrow this or can Yusuf borrow this?
Speaker 3:So being able to give them the opportunity to say no, right, right, and being comfortable to say no and no it's not necessarily always disrespectful that's giving them agency, giving them Of course they know that they can't say yes, I'm going to put my hand in the fire and I'm going to let them know that's not going to happen, you know. But just giving them that little like with age, with with every age, just giving them a little bit more agency so that they know, hey, my no is enough. Or agency so that they know, hey, my no is enough. I don't have to explain my no. So next time someone challenges their no, they feel comfortable to be able to stand on that and say no. Being able to let them know, hey, you don't have to prove things to people.
Speaker 3:You know, making sure that again your boundary and letting them know why you have boundaries like this right, religious boundaries, cultural boundaries. We don't do this because boundaries, cultural boundaries we don't do this because of this. We don't do this because allah says this, because we're muslim, because we're, because we're this and they, I, it's, it's bigger than us, right, um, and being able to to put enough context into those boundaries, into barriers that you know from other people, and also like letting them know that, hey, you cannot and should not let other people speak to you in a certain way. If you don't even like the way I speak to you, you can have a conversation with me about that and I have to be okay with, like you said, okay with whatever you tell me and process it and say, hey, I'm so sorry, you know, and so on and so forth, and I think the other thing is, as a last point, is just to be hypervigilant about people around your kids, regardless of how close you are to them, regardless of what relationship they have.
Speaker 1:You are to them, regardless of what relationship they have. To be just to be aware, because sometimes you know it is people closest to you that have access to your kids that do things to them that do this to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the biggest, you know the large majority of essays. Yeah, um, and happen because through people that are known to the, our children and also that have that damage their self-worth, that could damage their uh, you know, um, uh, their self-esteem, confidence, because if you can do as much as you can, but then every time they encounter this person, if they are calling them you know out of their name, if they're calling them such and such and you you don't stand up for them, yeah, then that I know a lot of people that get uh color shamed right, like uh colors or someone's big texture too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that hair.
Speaker 4:You, just you just gave an example about a hair texture between your two daughters.
Speaker 3:I know but imagine someone saying that, like saying, oh wow you, your hair is, whatever your hair is, or if she would be so beautiful if she wasn't, so, you know, dark yeah, I know I'm super like my antennas are all the way up. Yeah, yeah, I'm always not even just about to my kids. I don't want people to say that about themselves around my kids or to another person around my kids.
Speaker 4:I'm really really like, yeah, cutthroat about that so, basically, thank you so much, you guys, and I think a lot of things that we talked about today is basically trying to have an open communication in us, in our household, within our kids, and making sure that we create a safe space for them.
Speaker 4:Um, in many aspects of it's like the part of the resources I would encourage our audience to like read and read books, and there is other resources out there how to create a safe space for one another in our home, and also understanding boundaries and limitation that kids needs and how do we clarify that. And being able to model some aspect of boundaries and the boundaries itself does not seem to be like a form of disrespect to you. So kind of address that for yourself and if you are triggered based on the comments that you do here in this episode as well, please kind of take the time to take care of yourself. I encourage anyone out there um, take care of understanding the triggers that we are raised in and our family members and try to unlearn some of the things so that we can kind of create a better, safe, understanding and compassion state for one another.
Speaker 1:so we we love our conversation today and we'll talk about more definitely, like as the whole essay thing we definitely have to get into and child grooming and you know, know all of that. So we will talk about it A lot of stuff. Especially with all the stuff going on now.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely so. Prioritize your self-care, prioritize yourself, prioritize your kids, prioritize your community. And thank you for listening. This is a difficult conversation, see ya, assalamualaikum.
Speaker 1:Listening. This is difficult conversation. See ya, assalamu alaikum. Join the conversation in the comment section or on our instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May allah accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.
Speaker 4:MBC All relation to NBC.