Difficult Conversations
Difficult Conversations
Are We People Pleasers?
We tackle the complex dynamics of preserving Oromo identity while raising confident children who can thrive in American society. Our conversation explores how parents can cultivate strong cultural roots at home while preparing kids to succeed in spaces where they might be the only Oromo in the room.
• Creating an intentional Oromo-speaking environment at home to preserve language across generations
• Using music, art, and stories to build emotional connections to Oromo heritage
• Understanding how historical divisions between Oromo tribes continue to impact community relationships
• Addressing the scarcity mindset that prevents many Oromos from supporting each other professionally
• Recognizing that cultural identity isn't something to prove but something you inherently possess
• Moving beyond survival mentality to intentionally preserve and celebrate our culture
• Increasing Oromo visibility in diverse professional fields beyond traditional career paths
• Finding the courage to be the first to reach out and build connections in professional spaces
Join the conversation in the comment section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult Conversations where we tackle taboo topics in a safe space through empowerment and education.
Speaker 2:Assalamu alaikum everybody, welcome back to this new exciting episode. But I'm going to start out with asking the ladies how you're doing, how are you feeling? I see that there's a cup of coffee on the table and there's so much energy happening already.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry I'm so jittery. This is like my third cup of coffee today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think we might have to take that away.
Speaker 3:You just have your water bottle.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I don't drink enough water. Well, I don't, and it shows on my face.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like I said earlier, you look really beautiful today. Thank, you.
Speaker 1:Both of you look very beautiful. Mashallah, I like your kajal.
Speaker 3:That you have going on. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, so Today we're gonna be.
Speaker 3:The highway is the burning queen today.
Speaker 2:I am.
Speaker 3:I love she's representing Fall. Today we're going to be talking about the Hi-Base, the burgundy queen. Today, I love she's representing.
Speaker 2:It's her color, yes, leaning to fall color, and I love this color and it's kind of highlighted. Is fall your favorite.
Speaker 1:I like fall.
Speaker 2:I like fall, I like the comfort that it brings and I think sometime after daylight saving I have more energy, I realize, and before that I'm kind of in like in transitional space After or before After daylight saving I have more energy when the sun goes down at four. I get up early, so I get up really early and I like the morning routines to be done early in the morning, so I'm much more productive. Focused, determined drive, that's good.
Speaker 3:So that's what I'm at Right before the seasonal depression. Yes, exactly, exactly, it's been raining. I'm glad you clapped that.
Speaker 1:Right there, yep. The calm before the storm.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. But today we want to talk about our people, oromo people, and we want to talk about a lot of stuff that's related to how do we kind of cultivate, foster our community and, in a sense of like visualizing how to be driven people, creating spaces, kind of like encouraging one another. And I want to start off with kind of like general discussion where, like as Oromo people, we were talking about earlier that how in the previous episode too, that we're very timid people and we also, like we have a tendency of collective people pleasing and where we're able to do that to outsider but internally, among each other, we're not like that. So today's episode is going to be about understanding how do we be able to be in a different space with confidence and not have these reservations and fear orientated, so we can be able to kind of flourish as people.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of that happens home-wise, environmental-wise and so many other psychological, social behavior. Psychology or sociology has an impact on that. But we're going to talk about today from a different perspective, which is kind of understanding. How can we be able to create a supported environment for our kids in a household that they can have that quality that we want in a different spaces. So that's the question that we want to kind of explore. I want you guys as an audience to please think about that and how ways that you guys can kind of think about your family too as well, and for yourself. But I want to talk to my co-host here and ask them like how do you as a parent cultivate space and environment that is safe for your kids to be able to develop strength and Oromo identity?
Speaker 3:For me. Me and my husband are, like, because I am trying to learn Oromofa, like, so we speak Oromo in the house, and then I'm horic, um, and obviously english too, uh, we used to do a lot more english, uh, but then now, because actually we have, um, a mexican, uh, neighbor that's right in front of us and our, their kids are the same age to my son and their kids are completely fluent in Spanish, so I was like I want that. So I kind of we kind of started implementing more of the you know. Normally we kind of I go in and out of three different languages at the same time, but now we're kind of staying in that language more. And even Yusuf, he's asking like mama, I want to speak Oromia, how do you say this in Oromo, how do you say that in Oromo?
Speaker 3:And Nafi's right behind him mama, I want to know too, me too. So, um, that's like we're starting with language. And then also, I play a lot of Alibera in the house, um, and just because I feel like I want them to see that visual, you know, um, of Oromia and like that Oromo sound, because you know some, there's a thing to music, right, like it kind of introduces you to feelings with the language and relation to that.
Speaker 3:Um, there's also like this, um violinist that's in on youtube she does this. It's just, it's just instrumentals and but it's like it just shows you oromia in, like in, uh yeah, like it's um bird's eye view the mountains, the waterfalls, literally. I watched that, I sent it to actually to zehra when we were doing the mapping of the book, and it just puts you in that like wow, this is so beautiful, this is home.
Speaker 2:I want that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So we do a lot of that and we're like this is Oromia, this is back home, and so we kind of do a lot of that and obviously it helps that we have, you know, his grandparents that are here, that we have you know his grandparents that are here and that speak fluent Oromifa, and I talk to him in Oromifa, order him around in Oromifa. His favorite word I don't know it's not necessarily Oromo, but his favorite word is like Balage. He's like you're, so, mama, don't be Balage. Is that Oromo? I mean, you guys have Oromified it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the origins are in my heart, really yeah, the origins are in Park. Really yeah, balagate, it's like bad right, don't be bad, yeah, don't be bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think for me, I think for a long time, like I have family that's kind of mixed with other cultures and like marriage and stuff like that, and so I grew up almost seeing a lot of like oromos around me, my uncles, my aunts and whatever marrying outside.
Speaker 1:Oromo. But one thing I've noticed is that a lot of the times the Oromo identity, or like it, kind of rarely gets passed on to the kids. And so I've thought a lot about that and I've asked myself, like you know, if my husband was an Oromo, would I speak Oromo, you know? And I guess is there something that allows other cultures to kind of, you know, hold on to their language, their culture and stuff like that. But that's not necessarily the case for Oromos and diaspora. That's one question, because right now, you know, as I'm raising my kids and and stuff like that, like Bonnie said, you have to be super intentional about speaking the language, because it's not, it's because all the you know, all the stuff they watch, you know, they're at school eight hours a day and so you almost have to push against, you know, push against the current in order to instill these into your kids.
Speaker 1:And the other day my oldest she was, like you know, mom, I'm the only Oromo in my class you know, and so right now she's at that age where she's building her identity and she's identifying herself in relations to me and relations to her. You know her family and her cousins and stuff like that. So it's really important for me and, as a parent, you have to make this decision intentionally, you know. You have to be like OK, these are the things that you know that I can choose to pass on, and I think language and culture is very, very important to me.
Speaker 2:I wonder, if you guys talk to your spouse about it right, like having you're raising these kids and they're going to be eventually a more Oromo American kids, right? Their first identity is going to be I'm American and in my ethnicity and my parents' ethnicities are Oromo and they're from this land. How do you guys have those conversations with your spouse where, in a sense, that is intentional practices in your household versus kind of like ideology that everybody knows this should happen but there's not an actual practical conversation happening inside the house. So how do you guys have those conversations? Or do you have those conversations?
Speaker 1:Yes, so for my husband and I, you know, we've talked a lot about making sure that we talk Oromo to each other, you know, because English is always the easiest language for both of us, because you can, you know, explain and stuff like that. And my Oromo wasn't that strong actually before I married my husband and his Oromo mashallah, like you know.
Speaker 2:Bonnie's.
Speaker 1:like I didn't know that information no honestly, you know, like my oromo was not that strong. But after we got married, you know, and the funny thing is is that he would talk to me in English, and so I kept pushing back on him. He was like I already know English, you know, talk to me in English. And so I kept pushing back on him. He was like I already know English, you know, talk to me in Oromo. Wait pause, how did you lose your Oromofa? I didn't lose it, but without Okay. So, for example, when we first came to this country, I knew Swahili too, but completely I forgot Swahili. Okay, because if you don't use the language, you lose it.
Speaker 2:That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's true, and my Oromo, I mean, I started from second grade here, so it's like you. Like I said earlier, you're in school and stuff like that. You don't have a lot of chances to practice it. My parents speak Oromo, but even their Oromo is mixed with Somali, because my parents. They spent a lot of time in Somalia and stuff like that. So the Oromo that I learned is like super mixed, and so when I'm conversating with my husband I'll say certain words and he'll be like no that's not yeah, that's not this, this does not mean this, and so, like he like first couple years, he made fun of me Like to the moon and back.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that's literally my story, except I didn't speak Oromifa Like barely I speak Amharic, and Jaylen's family, and like my family also, kind of what they did is that we spoke English and Amharic in the house and then Oromofa was like I don't not really that much so um, and then context to that is that we grew up in Antisawa, right, so like yeah, so I guess that's.
Speaker 1:That's what I want to know. Like that, that's my million dollar question. Is that why, like in the case of Oromos, why is it that it's really easy for us to lose the language? It's really easy for us to like, assimilate and not visibly be Oromo. You know what I mean. Like what? What factor? What? Like what's going on here?
Speaker 2:So do you want the anthropology aspect, do you want evolutional psychology aspect? Do you want sociology aspect of that answer? So what?
Speaker 1:give me, give me the layman's, like I think this and this.
Speaker 2:Ok, so here's my understanding of why we do that. I think we are surviving, Right understanding of why we do that. I think we are surviving, right. When we are surviving, we are not thinking about how can we preserve our culture and tradition. We're thinking about how can I survive today, right, and even coming to the US for Oromo people, we're still surviving. Does that make sense? Even though, like, how do we get here? War, this come. Like, how did your parents end up in somalia? That's true war, right, and so we didn't come because we want to be here. We came because we didn't have any other choices but to leave that space.
Speaker 2:So when we come, surviving, it's like we, our generation, are the one that having the conversation saying how can we preserve our culture and tradition? But our parents who are living in this country or abroad in Australia, canada, europe are not thinking about how can we preserve our culture, instead of how can we make bread, how can we feed our kids, how can we protect them out of dangers that exist in reality? And so, because of that mechanism, the prevention of culture, tradition, uh, that and all this stuff is not a priority, and I think if to. That's why this episode is really necessary to have a conversation around is that our generation. Let's not be complacent, right? Let's not be so sucked into this cultural western culture, culture of like, surviving, but also, how can we do simultaneously a balanced way of raising kids that are proud? Oromo are in a different spaces as far as career choices or in so many aspects of it.
Speaker 2:So that's why, when I ask you guys that question of like, did you and your spouse talk about it? Do you guys have those conversation or is just something automatically you guys are implementing? And that's why I'm wondering about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I want to answer that question and then also address the point of the survival apparatus.
Speaker 3:Yes, me and my husband did talk about it because, again, I wanted to learn Ormfa.
Speaker 3:One, because I wanted to connect with his parents and, and better, um, two, I wanted I felt like that was an opportunity for me to to kind of get my roots in my culture and roots in my, because language is the the fastest way that you can get acclimated to a culture. So, um, that and then um and I, because of that we made sure that was a thing and then also we knew that, like I, before we got pregnant, we did a lot of research about, like how kids that have roots, strong cultural roots, strong cultural backgrounds, that like, if you obviously religion is one thing but culture is also, the more I'm going to use that word again the more strong anchors that you have, strong ground and you know fundamentals that you have, the harder it is or the less likely you are to float to get lost you know and to also have someone else challenge um or make you feel inferior, because then your identity is not based off of your feelings and emotions.
Speaker 3:It's based off of so much what allah says you are, what your culture says you are, your. Your do's and don'ts are based off of not what you feel like doing and what you don't feel like doing, but it's also about like what my culture allows, what my culture doesn't allow. You know the traditions and then also, obviously, your dean right. So because of that, we really were into about talking about like and that's also how I got a lot more involved in the Oromo activism and obviously, you know, since 2016 till I think it was like to 2020, there was a lot of like Oromo. You know aero movements. It was just so easy to be able to be focused in the Oromo culture. So that's why the conversation started and then, that's how you know we had that conversation. But talking about that survival apparatus just to give you another answer too is that Oromo people, I think for the last hundred years, have been the Oromo language, has not been, unless you were in Oromia, like in the Redoa, or you know Badeysa, or you were in Nagele or some place like that, badeysa, or you were in Nagele or some place like that.
Speaker 3:If you went outside of Oromia, if you went like, or, you know, if you wanted to go to the cities, the language that you needed to know to be able to make money was a different language. It's Amharic, if you. So again, that survival apparatus, the ability, and then that creates an inferiority complex right. That creates an inferiority complex right. So for those people that spoke Amharic, it's kind of like knowledge instead of language Privilege too. Yeah, so you're more likely to get hired. If you speak Amharic without an accent, you're even easier to get hired, and that's, besides your qualifications right. And then when you come here, english is the language for you to be able to make money Also a specific kind of English, right yeah, professional English.
Speaker 3:The reason why I think our culture, our Oromofa, our Oromoma or Oromo people are more likely to kind of get lost in these spaces is because we have this culture about community.
Speaker 3:We have this culture about pushing our family and making sure that our family does a lot better than us. So our parents, they figured, figured, hey, my accent is holding me back, my lack of language is holding me back. So I want to make sure that my kids don't have that problem, right? So they make sure that they push us into more english speaking you know spaces and they try to speak to us in english at home and all of these things. Or, if it's back home, in Amharic and Amharic speaking spaces. That way, when you might be, like, completely sterilized from your Oromo accent, you might be completely sterilized from you know your Oromo language in the attempt of you being not having the same issues that they did. Because, again, again, survival, like when you are in survival mentality, like the habe said, you're not thinking about the future and the you know, the preservation of traditions and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:Um so yeah, I think that's why.
Speaker 1:Um yeah I think, yeah, so that brings a really good point, because hearing you say that you know about the survival apparatus, um, I think about the whole maslow's hierarchy you know, like we're we're not even past the first two levels for us to be, like, thinking about how to preserve our language, you know, and all that stuff now going on to you know, now that we are here, we're in this country, you know, I used to think about the whole idea of like a salad versus a melting pot.
Speaker 1:You know about what the US is and I've always wanted to for it to be more like a salad. You know that you have all of these different parts. You know, and all these parts are visible and you can see them in the bowl, but there's still one whole thing, um, and I, I wanted my identity, when I pass it on to my kids, to be that way. You know, I want them to be American, I want them to be Oromo, I want them to be Muslim, um, you know, and how do we cultivate that in a way where it sets up our kids for success?
Speaker 1:you know, in careers and in just the American society and also having roots back home, because you know that is. I do want to go back home one day, you know.
Speaker 2:I think a couple of things with that right there is, traditionally, when you're raising young kids, what are you doing at home, I think, when you know culture-wise, like bonnie was suggesting earlier like we play music, do we read, do we find autumnal books, do we find um autumnal activities or do we kind of have autumnal celebration as community, do we go to like each other house where kids are kind of like autumnal and they're kind of like probably talking about that instead of um aspect?
Speaker 2:So it starts from inside the house and what you and your intention as a parent and the goals that you have for your kids, right. So if you decided that you know what I want my kids to go to Ivy League college, for example right, then your focus is going to be solely academic, right, you're going to go into like 100%. They're going to do what is it? Puma or something I'm trying to remember, some like mathematic stem thing, that it's like a, it's like a tutoring things that people do after school, like puma, I don't know. I don't know, anyway somebody would know in the audience, but anyway, like a lot of, for example I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not dreaming a lot of Daisy kids, for example. Right, daisy culture is academic, is like all they think about. Daisy parent specifically because I grew up with a lot of Daisy kids, it's like academic is number one thing. So parents are like putting their kids into this and this and this and all this planning is kind of like setting them up for their own academic success so they can attend Ivy League college, because that is a success according to the parents.
Speaker 2:When it comes to, for example, our people, our Oromo people, to encourage the identity, something similar as that needs to be provided with the parents and how, simultaneously, they can kind of set their kids up for success when it comes to being proud of their identity, it's how do we talk about our culture? How excited are you about your culture? Like those messaging that is provided inside the household is what encouraged? Like, how do we talk about other fields of career? Right, do we kind of minimize things? I'm kind of jumping a lot of stuff you guys can kind of unpack specifically. So it's like how do we talk about anything in the household so the kids can go to these other spaces? That is not like them. They're able to find their sense of grounding there.
Speaker 1:I think storytelling really helps. You know, with kids um my daughter specifically like we do story um, story time every night and she kids at this age, they're like so interested and so curious about everything, uh, and so I would tell them, like, stories that my parents tell me um about back home, uh, and and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And one thing I will say is that, like, as Oromos, we are not one thing right. We have so many different cultures, so many. We're not a homogeneous ethnic group. And you know, if you put like, for example, if you put somebody from Jimma or Harar or Arsi, they probably need translators for each other. You know, and I think sometimes that's what. What makes it hard is that because we don't have like, yes, we are Oromos, but we are, like so vastly different that when you see things online it might confuse somebody. And you have people that are kind of gatekeeping warriors, you know they're like, oh, this is not Oromor, this is not Oromor. You know they're like, oh, this is an automore, this is an automore, you know, and stuff like that. So it makes you, as a parent, I feel like have to navigate that and find ways to get your kids to understand that as well.
Speaker 2:So basically kind of diversifying the automore culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's different automores and there's not one thing. And you know, we have different religions, we have different practices and you know how. What like for a long time growing up, this is what I struggled with is that, you know, sometimes I felt like there was mainstream oromo, you know that was being pushed and like and stuff like that. And then there was me, right, and so it's like do I fit in there, you know, and so it was. It took a lot of soul searching and a lot of doing a lot of internal work to be like you know who says this is Oromo and this isn't Oromo, you know.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I think I hear, I hear a lot of what you're saying and, especially as someone that kind of lived outside of, like you know, I guess in a way like bird's eye view right, I had a very peripheral vision or sight of the Oromo community for most of my life. One thing I know is that it really is important to talk about Oromoma as in something that is just you are. It's not something that you have to prove, it's not about the way you talk, it's not about the way you practice certain things. You are, it's in your blood and that way, it's not something people can take away from you. You are that class and that, because you are oromo and I am oromo, there is a bond there right, there's a community there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that has to be something that's extremely emphasized, because and that's also something that is very important in my family is that, again, as we were just excited to be Oromo, because back in Addis Ababa we really didn't talk about being Oromo- it was just you're just Ethiopian, like moving around, speaking Amharic, and then obviously my name is very Oromo, all my names are, you know, it's very Oromo, like my, my, my, you know my uncle, mosisa, mosisa.
Speaker 3:It's very like, very, very horrible. So, um, you, and then you have that like I am it, regardless of what I am capable of or how much I know, right, baseline, base, foundation. And then when you have that relation and you're like, okay, because, because it's just like the blood that runs in our blood in our body, there there's a white person that has a blood, red blood, there's a black person that has a red blood, there's a christian person, there's a muslim, right, so you're not surprised by the fact that there's different otomo people that have different cultures, that have different religions, that have different identities and whatever right. Cultures that have different religions, that have different identities and whatever right. That, that kind of bringing it that simple.
Speaker 3:It is. Uh, I feel like and I loved that conversation me and my grandfather actually used to have of, like he taught me my great, great, great, great, like it's like I could literally go on and name my great, great, great great by their first name and last name, and that gives you roots, and I think I say all of this to say that one.
Speaker 3:We have to be able to go back to that. Go back to the source, go back to the fact that you are Oromo, regardless. That's what you need. That's what you need to connect with another Oromo person. Stop asking if that person's Hararon. It's great, you can have that.
Speaker 2:Can I ask where do you feel like the differentiation is coming from? Within that differentiation, there is a sense of animosity, there is a sense of resentment, there is a sense of the hierarchy of I'm better than you kind of, too, I love that. That's where we should be, and I'm noticing how that is not where we are. Does that make sense? So, like, where do you feel the level of this differentiating? Like you're rc, you're this, you're that, you're shasha money, you're wallaka, you're hotter? Like there is. Why is that even necessary? Because our sorry, I'm sorry, go that was it.
Speaker 2:That's what I think is great to talk about what we want to be versus like and also not addressing where we are right we are at that misplaced place right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the reason why I say that, what I was going to jump in and say was that we are human, humans, love to categorize and it's the, it's our brain's way of finding the easiest connection, the most the most comfortable place, right, if you are Harar, I'm Harar, the chances are me and you have more commonalities based off of the way we talk what's appropriate, what's not appropriate, versus me and RC person. Right, and obviously me and an RC person have something more common than a Somali person and I, and so we categorize and go, go, go, go. It's like a Russian doll so that we can get to that person.
Speaker 1:That's the most comfortable, that we don't have to code switch with all the time, right, but then with that, just like all humans, comes judgment, criticism, superiority, complex, all of that thing, stereotypes, stereotypes, and we other the other person, and definitely and stereotyped and we other, the other person and, um, definitely, and I think the hardest thing sorry to cut you off, but hardest thing with oromo is that even before, like when somebody speaks in oromo, you can probably pick it up where they are from yeah yeah, you know, and so I think, because you can do that, it's really hard for you know, for them, for everybody to be like we're all oromo you know, let's we are, we just have a different dialogue.
Speaker 2:Right, we are oromo, yeah, no, I'm saying to those people yeah, yeah, and we have a different dialogue, we have different and the culture is beautiful.
Speaker 2:I think our diversity is what makes us really nice, exactly yeah and so to kind of address that, it's important to know the the discomfort that comes up and how do we deal with that right first before we get to the actual conversation, the things that we wanted to address today. So I wonder if you guys can talk about a little bit of the discomfort that arises, that creates the barriers to the actual topic that we're having today, even though we're kind of starting a little bit um, that discomfort, the things that created with the animosity, the resentment, the I want to be the only person to be in this space, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Right, that conversation. I want you guys to expand on that a little bit.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. I'm sorry. I think it starts at home. Like with everything, it starts at home, you know, and I think our parents do us such a disservice when they are perpetuating these like stereotypes or you know, so-and-so is like this RC, people are like this, people are like this, you know. And so when you hear that growing up, um, and when you have friends that are those groups or whatever, um, you kind of, it's like you look for what you've been told.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean and it reinforces what you've been told at home. So I think because of that, it's hard to break certain things, but it's on us to go beyond these and kind of build those relationships. And I think the biggest thing that in our community that can bring us all together is these, like community centers or masjids. Again, you know, and again that is where our failure lies yeah, you know how it's cause.
Speaker 3:I think about like resource hoarding right when you are told yeah, I literally this this, this example just kind of came into my mind. Yeah, during the 90s and the 80s, um, there was only allowed to be in the supermodel world one black supermodel, right? So, um, you know, the fashion shows, whatever, whatever they will only have have one black supermodel and the minute there's a better, bigger, beautiful supermodel, they kick this one out and place this one. So that created a resource hoarding and that created competition, not with the other, but between these two equally beautiful, equally capable black girls, because they were all fighting for one spot, or what they thought was that one spot. Right? So that, like, if you, if you listen to a lot of like what's called, like people, models, like supermodels, old models, talk about like that competition and how that was like it really emotionally draining because, and even in the acting space, right in hollywood, actresses, black actresses, while there was like a hundred billion, um, white actresses that were thriving right in competition but like healthy competition, uh, black art actresses were told that there's only one spot for you, right? So there was, there was a lack of creating a union, there was a lack of support, there was a lack of this.
Speaker 3:That's also the same thing with the oromo and with, like, in a bigger context, there's that's also the same thing with the oromo people, in the sense that you know, when the ethiopian, the country was, you know, controlled by the empire, emperor, or you know whatever. All these amara integrate um, uh, leadership. There has always been a point to make sure that the only way you can divide people is by making them one over. Like you know, fight over each other, right, fight each other so they don't fight you. That's what happened here during slavery. Yeah, rwanda, divide and conquer, yeah, so I think because of that.
Speaker 3:And then you know that kind of um, that kind of uh, that kind of um, I guess, in a way, programming. It takes a long time, conditioning, it takes a long time to undo. Yeah, right, so our parents are the victims of that programming and they might not be now fighting over that one job. And then that also kind of you, you stop separating it from why, why you are doing because, like, again, I don't know if you guys have heard about that mice theory you don't know why, why you feel this way about this people, but you feel this way about these people all of the sudden. You know because you have this been this thing that you've been taught a long time ago? But what you feel stays, not what you know, right, um? So I think that's why every different, every different tribe has some sort of feeling about each other, and I like, for me specifically, like growing up, I hear a lot about, like, my dad's war stories.
Speaker 1:You know, um, he was from a generation that did the whole uprising, the Bali uprisings with my grandfather, um, and things like that, and so when he tells us stories, it's all it's. It's like, you know, these groups of people were the ones that sold us out. You know, this tribe was the one that brought the you know the enemy to your grandfather, and so when he tells a story, he tells it with such emotion because he lived through that, you know, and so, but what our job is to disassociate the people back then that he was dealing with and their descendants you know, because you can't hold the children responsible for what their fathers did.
Speaker 1:The crimes of the parents, yeah.
Speaker 3:And also even in that moment right, that again I don't know what stories you're talking about and who you're talking about. I'm just making a statement in general, which is there even in that moment there's a degree of separation between the tribe and the people that did those things. Right, it's not the whole tribe. Again, I'm not invalidating what your father was feeling. I'm just saying that because of these stories that we keep getting told, we don't have a moment as a community to kind of just stop and say these people that did these things might be doing it for, you know, gains like capital gains. They might have been paid, they might have been threatened, they might have been whatever. It might be an individual basis versus a tribal basis, right, and it might just be.
Speaker 3:Also these people might be extremely tribalistic and then there might be um, you know that also could be. But then we have to always try to protect the tokuma aspect of it, so kind of trying to individualize it as much as we can and like maybe even group, you know, keep it in the group aspect. But one thing I'll give us credit for, alhamdulillah, is that this new generation that you know either in diaspora is very awake to that, more than even our generation. It's much more awake to that, much more awake to being able to be more involved, more vocal, more knowledgeable. I mean, the University of Minnesota is teaching an Oromo language course, oromo studies. Like that didn't come out of nothing, that came because there is a demand for it, I mean. So I say all of this to say that, yes, we are, one step at a time, breaking away from that like tribalistic mentality. Maybe we're doing it very slowly, yeah, but I feel like we're heading somewhere.
Speaker 2:So, basically, what I'm hearing from both of you is that we also need to do a little bit of hailing and simultaneously continues to create space for one another and acknowledging that history did happen and some of the things that we can learn from history.
Speaker 2:How can we continue to do better so that we can have a better foster community that will be kind of collective instead of kind of, you know, exiling one another, right? So, and that is something that we're just trying to talk about here in today's episode is kind of highlighting okay, this is what the historical event is, this is our experiences, this is our challenges and this is where we used to be and at in some aspect of it today, too, is that? What are ways that we can improve that as we move forward and in a different aspect of fields? Right, this episode was kind of mainly about talking about Oromo. Individuals are not in a different professional spaces. Even if we are, we're not very visible, right, and the visibility is like because we, especially the women, even the men, they look like Somali, so sometimes it's like everybody assumed they're Somali but, they're not saying, well, I'm not Somali but I'm Oromo, like they're not visibly kind of saying.
Speaker 2:and that's where the conversation about being proud and finding the identity to be important in wherever career choices that you're at. So how do we cultivate that? How do we kind of encourage our listeners or individuals that in our life that, whatever career choices that you're in, how do you make yourself visible in that?
Speaker 1:space, I think, um reaching out, um and not being afraid to be the first one to say hello. So at my work, um, I've realized that there's a lot of people that work with me and you know, from cleaners to lab people and stuff like that. So now I've started to do this thing where, if they look east african, I'll talk to them in normal, I'll be'll be like hey, come here. And 99% they'll respond back and be like come here you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, and I didn't used to do that, and I think on a previous episode I talked about how I had a nurse working with me who like for a long time I thought she was Oromo, but then we kept like passing each other and we'll just do like this nod thing, you know. And so finally I'm like hey, come, how are you? And then she's like oh my God, this whole time I was thinking you're Somali, and stuff like that. And so, yeah, we became friends instantly. So yeah, that's one thing I'm changing at work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I think I believe in like building coalition and so if you look East African, actually that's not even true. I start with black. I like that If you're just black. I am high, my name, I mean I don't discriminate, I say hi to everybody, but in speaking, of in speaking of you know, building a community.
Speaker 3:I start with like, if there's anyone there that is black, I community. I start with like, if there's anyone there that is black, I will make sure to go out of my way to kind of introduce, even if it's just in a, in a team's meeting or something, and I see a name or I see a person, whatever I hi, my name is that, and then of course you can smell the and have a stress right like so are you talking?
Speaker 3:about you could not? No, I mean like you could literally look at us and tell we are what we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You don't know if it's like Amara, tigray or Omo, but like you're able to tell, or Somali, you know they have injera there. You can smell the injera. So I make sure, hey, how are you If you're wearing hijab? I say assalamualaikum hijab. I say assalamu alaikum. You know what's your deal, who are you? Yeah, and then kind of get into that building a coalition in that aspect. And then the one thing I'm trying to get better at is I. Normally, when I get to the normal aspect of it, fear starts setting in. Oh, yeah, right, why? Because then now I want to know who you are, I. I feel like it's a. There's a big um again. My history with the Minnesota oral community is that it's I. It comes from a space of a lot of judgment, right, uh. So I want to know who you are, what's your deal, what's your personality like and um, how close are we gonna get?
Speaker 3:you know what I mean how close am I gonna let you get? Um, you do that right away. Yeah, no, I mean because the thing, the truth of the matter is right. Um, I can say hi to a madhul person and like be really cool, like you know what I mean. Case in point isn't that what? Isn't that what they're called In that language? There's a reason why I use that language. I just don't know what it's called in Oromafa Gurracha, yeah, so Gurracha, I, I, I. If it means something bad, I apologize. I don't know, I don't speak that language. No, no, no, you said something correct.
Speaker 3:But we use a different. We didn't you didn't describe it in our language. That's why she said case in point, because of that, well, I don't count, because I barely speak. That's true. Be kind to her, she's getting there, okay. So, uh, a gurrecha person. It's like I can just be um chit chatty, like whatever, whatever, and I'm leaving you at work, you're not following me to my community. A somali person, the same way. A Habesha person, the same way. The Ormo person. There's a chance I might write on to you at the wedding. You might know my family, you might know such and such. So now I have to know, like, where is the line? Who are you? Are you that person that's going to be? Like, oh my God, can I get there? Then, if that's the case, boom bye.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. You want to understand your boundaries exactly.
Speaker 3:I'll have to be a little bit more careful. But that comes from the space of familiarity. Right, I say all of this to say all of we have to make sure that we are building coalition and then, when we get to the space of like, going to work, I do think again, like I want to make sure I keep giving our people credit. There is this like Oromo language is known now, like there's no one that like in government or whatever that doesn't know in healthcare, whatever that doesn't know what an Oromo language is. If you request an Oromo translator, you will have an Oromo Like. That's great.
Speaker 3:There's some sort of visibility there and I remember people talking about like when people ask you where are you from, say I'm Oromo, and they will ask you where is that? And say it's in Ethiopia. Right, that is information building. That is making sure people ask questions, answering those questions and what do you mean? Why did you say that and not just Ethiopia? And then you go in to explain why and all of these things. But then, when it comes to visibility and I'm sorry, I don't mean to harp on this topic, but we have to also make sure that we show up in surveys, we show up in in um, when we are being, you know, like surveys, how it works, surveys in the community, when's what is um, censuses and all of these things, because that's how we get funding, that's how and also when we network, making sure we put one thing I will say, I'll say, I'll say over and over again mashallah, our somali brothers and sisters are really good about this, about Wallahi they know something they know a place that has something going on.
Speaker 3:They would be like I know you, you are really good at this, you should. I remember this girl. I don't, she doesn't even know my name. I was working, I was in college. I was working at a hospital. I was a registering registration person and she said she came up to me she said hey, why are you working here? And I was like I was like I really was taken aback. I was like what do you mean? Like, what do you, what do? And she's like no, you should, like you should be a flood because they make like this much money more. And I know you guys make this much and you they're so much more over time. And she was like literally telling me all these things. And well, she doesn't ask me. And she's like here is my name, here is my phone number. When you, when you decide to apply for the position, give them me, give them my name as a referral or a reference. And I was like that is so nice yeah you know she doesn't.
Speaker 3:She didn't ask my name, she didn't ask who I was, she didn't ask whatever I was. She just saw me and she just wanted to help and she knew she had information that might be helpful to me. They're so good about that I'm. I've had a lot of, a lot of somali people that are just that, have been able to like reach back and pull me up.
Speaker 1:Very generous information where do you guys think that comes from?
Speaker 2:where do you guys think that comes from? There is again the. The model example that bonnie provided was like is similar to that. There's a lot of there's internal scarcity, right, um, meaning that like I don't want I, if I give it to her, she's going to take my spot, right that? The psyche of that, like not thinking that my hug is my hug and your hug is your hug, like somali people don't think it as like this is my only hug. We're generalizing somali again. Everybody's different. Yeah, so it's. It's more like everybody can eat whatever allah's gonna give me, allah's gonna give me. My risk is not going to be shortened because I've shows here, right, if it's meant for me, it will be that. But there's, there's a psyche like it's very deep in there. Scarcity of that I think.
Speaker 1:I think this is.
Speaker 1:This is super hyper, um pronounced when it comes to like business and like business deals and you know and all that stuff, and navigating the space for myself now, um's, I'm trying to exercise this muscle a little bit.
Speaker 1:And you know, just the other day there was um cause I do you know like I manage a business on the side with my husband and there the MDH was giving away, you know, surplus supplies and stuff like that. So I made it a point to go through all my contact and like be like this is what's going on. You know, come and get this, apply for it, get this apply for it, blah, blah and stuff like that. And honestly, it's a muscle that you have to exercise for it to get better, because I don't know when it started, but we we do have this like tunnel vision of like you know, if I'm at this place, then you know I there should be only me and I, you know, I also want to just add maybe it's not just that, maybe it's not just that, maybe it's not even that and it could be.
Speaker 3:I just want to give a different perspective because it just came to me when I was listening to it all it could be a lot of things. I just want to get something else. There's a lot of lisi in our community like oh you don't. Don't talk about. Don't talk about what you do. Don't talk about how much money you make. Don't talk about how you got somewhere. Don't talk about what you do. Don't talk about how much money you make. Don't talk about how you got somewhere.
Speaker 3:Don't because it's in the fear of the evil eye yeah, yeah, and also it's seen as braggadociousness, right, if you, I know people that can't sit five minutes with someone else talking about themselves, about what, how, how, like life has turned into, and and that's not in a negative way of they're wishing bad on them or anything it makes them uncomfortable because they think they're bragging. There's a lot of people that are doing epic things. You wouldn't know about them because you don't see them. They like to work in quiet. There's a whole culture of put your head down and work and let your work talk for itself right, there's more than that.
Speaker 2:I mean it could be.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying there's that part to it and one thing I'm gonna I'm gonna say too, is that when, when, in that space Ahon, for example, um, and it's not just us, I think Ethiopian Habesham people have a lot of that. There's this supervisor that I just met a couple of weeks ago. She's Ertrid, and I've known her for two years. I didn't know she was a supervisor. I literally didn't know she was a supervisor. She's like top dog. She works with the medical director of Minnesota Department of Human Services and like all of these things, and I don't know she's just like, and it's like humbleness. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But I think there's a level of hasadumma there too. I mean, there is. You want to be the only one there in the realm of career or having a business or whatever it is. There's a level of hasiduma that I don't want to open the door for somebody else.
Speaker 3:Point blank period and that comes from insecurity of. Maybe I don't even want you to know how much I make, because if you, again I might be just giving people a lot of benefit of the doubt right after I said I'm stopping to give the people benefits and doubts. But I think there's also a lot of like secrecy about how much people make, right. So there's like, oh, if you have the same job as I do, you will know how much I make and you will know my financial story, right. And then there's that aspect, there's that level of detachment there. I also think that there is the reality of sometimes we the same fear that I have, right, like, if this person comes into my work profession, are they going to take my you know, are they going to take it out into the community? And they're going have that conversation. You know, whoever I am into, that there's a lot of um, insecurity, insecurity. There's a lot of moving with moving through insecurity in our community.
Speaker 3:I think.
Speaker 2:I think that's why, um, us having this conversation is really like it's important, because I one of the most important thing is like how we are. We have limitation in a different aspect of career choices too, as in as well as not bringing each other up in every directions, right, but there's also limitation. Um, for me, I really wish there's more or more artists right, like a painter or a photographer or a documentary writer or a music writer or videographer. That is, professionally, they go to degree and they sustain and they do this passionately and like that diversified career choice. I'm really passionate about it because obviously I'm a therapist and I love when I can see talent in people. But I'm trying to like, well, you're so good. Yes, I told Bonnie once I said you'll be so great as a administration MBA, administration in a corporate setting. But the thing is that because of her skills, her diverse skills, will provide so much support. Not only that, it brings people along, it also can execute her job. So there's like balance of her Right. I think.
Speaker 1:I think, bonnie, you do this really well, right, like you, whenever she sees a job post, she's like OK, do this sees a job post, she's like okay, do this exactly.
Speaker 2:you know. But I think if there is this level of insecurity and and thinking like there's, there's less and I don't want people to take my spot, I want this is me talking to somebody out there listening to this episode. Take a moment and ask yourself why you do that right, why do you feel like your risk is not provided, and how do we kind of work on that to reduce that feeling? I know sometimes I have it too, because I think the best way to kind of make connection to other people within the audience is to be honest about how you also struggle with that. I used to think that.
Speaker 2:I used to think that you know what. I want to be in a specific place and I want to be the only known person. But because in my field there's not a lot of me, right, I'm the only one there and sometimes I'm starting to see more right, and even in grad school there's only me. They're either I'm the black person, the Oromo person and the Muslim person. Right, I'm in that space, I'm the only person, and I realized how lonely that is, because I want to talk about certain things with people in our space. I want to talk about the struggles and the concepts. Sometimes somebody says, like why? Like the microaggression that happens, the barriers that happen? I want to talk to somebody that looks like me so we can try to break through it together. But if I'm the only one dealing with that, I feel like at that moment I'm the only one who has this problem. It doesn't really kind of extend to everybody else right.
Speaker 1:Do you think that when you wanted to be the only one in your specific field, or whatever you're in, it gave you like a sense of accomplishment?
Speaker 2:Yes, then that goes back to psyche right Now. If you are the only one, did you feel that way about yourself as a child, like is this your way of like getting attention from your parents, right, right, like. I think about it from that perspective, Like if you're the only one, everybody's praising you and you did not get that praise as a child, like you're filling a void.
Speaker 2:You're filling that void. For me it's like that, and I don't know about everybody else who feels that way. For me it was like that because I'm the middle child and I feel like I'm kind of always in the background of everybody's life. I'm not the center of their attentions.
Speaker 2:So you're always like achieving, achieving, achieving, yes, I'm achieving. To do that because now I'm realizing at this stage of my life, like no right, no, it's not that I need more people around me, I need community, I need collectiveness. I don't want just being me, I want other therapists, I want other psychologists, I want other doctors who's doing similar things, so we can talk about the actual commonality and how to make this profession much more accessible to everybody else.
Speaker 1:And I think when you guard your post like that, you can't bring somebody up, no, and you won't go up yourself. You don't because there's animosity. So then everybody's just stagnant.
Speaker 2:Exactly that animosity that there I literally work through that and to know that that's not. And that helps with religion, because Allah helped that. Because when you understand Allah is a Razak, you know your risk comes from Him. Why do you have to worry about other people taking your spot? Don't worry about that. Exactly, it's about who can I bring me along. So talk about that experience for you guys.
Speaker 3:I want to just add a little bit about the diversification of careers. I think one thing as a community that we have to be really good at is making sure that we have people in different places of power, different places of employment, different careers, because, if you notice again I love to use the Somali community as an example there's a lot like you will find a Somali person anywhere in government, in police, in hospitals and in education.
Speaker 3:Film and film in music, yeah, but we, I need each other out of opportunity, like we shame each other out of opportunity or we discourage each other out of opportunity we push our insecurity on one another.
Speaker 3:We are really good at a projection and sometimes we don't know what we don't know. Right and again, not just the pulling app aspect of it, but the opening doors aspect of it. Right, making sure that people the when you. Again, what I was going to say earlier was that when you don't tell people what you've done, it's like it has never been done before it has not been done. So that's actually my supervisor told me. She said if you want people to know that you are valuable, make sure you shout about your work. Make sure you shout about the work that you're doing. That doesn't mean you're braggadocious. It means that you are letting them know this work wouldn't have gotten done if I didn't do it.
Speaker 2:How would they recognize you?
Speaker 3:Exactly so when we say, hey, I am in this space, right, I am in this space, right, I am in this space and I'm doing well.
Speaker 2:People would be like what is this space Curiosity? Yeah, If you can do it, I can do it.
Speaker 3:If you can do it, I can do it. And just being like there's a reason why there's a lot of nurses automobile nurses, there's a reason why there's a lot of RTs, right, because they saw somebody be able to do it and they were like, oh okay, this person looks like me, this person acts like me, this person has I can do it too. Yeah, we have to. And then that creates also protection, like I said, being involved in census, being involved in surveys, being able to get you know scholarships and funding, and like I I told you guys, I went to this class conference that was literally being given 25 000 for000 for different community organizations, and there was everyone there and there was there was a section that said Oromo and nay, because the results are not out there.
Speaker 2:There is not out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like it was Oromo and Karen, the language, karen, like and nay. And I was like are you kidding me? So they went looking for us, but we didn't respond. Right so we missed out.
Speaker 2:We don't even know where there's resources. That's another thing right. Because nobody shares, like you said, nobody talks about it, nobody have the conversation about it, because it was so kind of like I should only use fixed mindset, and that level is like how do we get out of that?
Speaker 3:limitation, yeah, and get out of that survival mentality or like that you know, survival of the fittest, like we're at some point. It's not just about the amount of money you're making, but, yes, there is money that to be made in a lot of different spheres that we don't know about. But it's also about making sure that, thinking of the community. What does the community need? The community needs protection and government. The community needs educators. The community needs lobbyists. The community needs protection and government. The community needs educators, the community lobbyists. The community needs books, music, art. Right, that's the only way you can push your culture forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the last thing I would want to add to that is that if there are people who are trying new careers, new professions, and you see them fail, it doesn't mean that you will fail too yeah or it's not.
Speaker 3:it doesn't mean time for you to laugh at them and kick them when they're down, because we're really good at that and that was not a failure either.
Speaker 2:Just because they tried and they didn't actually complete, it doesn't mean that it's not a failure.
Speaker 3:They figured out one more way not to do it.
Speaker 1:So I think we do a lot of sitting on the sidelines and waiting, being like you figure it out, now jump in. Yeah, so growing up in college, I did Amway, as you know, so the hardest thing is that when, when I was talking to Ramos, it's like you do it, you become a millionaire and then I'll join. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think that was. We don't know how to take risk. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We are so risk averse so risk averse.
Speaker 1:And then finally, like when you are, when you're constantly told that you just were like you know what? I'm not even going to mess with you guys anymore and also supporting our community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, supporting, supporting our community.
Speaker 2:Supporting the people that are doing something, when someone we are more than happy, like supporting this Beyonce and whatever like little John and little Jim, whatever who they are.
Speaker 3:But then an automobile person does something. You know that's a little bit uh, you know a little bit different, like that girl that did a whole gallery right, like showing up there and seeing I was so happy to see her parents be so proud of her. Like work Cause you don't see that normally. You know, just being able to like invest, not just with our voices but also with our money, with our capital, with, my God, automobile people. Do you know that they are so stingy with their likes and their comments and their reviews and their shares?
Speaker 2:It's a fixed mindset. It's a fixed mindset. It's the resentment. I love you guys, so you love the automobile people, right? Yes, she loves you guys, and that's actually. I want to bring it back to a couple of things that I want to wrap up our show today with is that the biggest thing is that support one another, right, and that means include this podcast and kind of subscribe and share and listen to it and give us feedback as well. But before we do that, I want us to kind of provide some action takeaway and things like that, so that way that we can kind of give suggestion how we can open the gate of providing more ways to have this conversation. Go ahead, abani.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you. Oh, my God, in five minutes. No, I just was thinking about the conversations that we were having about building community and building community resources, like making sure we utilize the community resources that we have. Oswana, do better, be better. Make sure that you're not just creating spaces.
Speaker 1:Slow down, slow down. Okay, you're okay. Take a deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 3:They need to hear it. Okay, deep breath, osvana. I feel like there's a lot more to do than just leisure activities, as parties that are useless and like soccer awesome, but parties useless.
Speaker 2:You could invest in you know, more you know. Make sure you even use your social media platforms to do more community work, you know and create networking opportunities. Maybe we should collaborate with them and join some of the things that they allow us.
Speaker 3:Yeah and also not even just ask other people. Anyone that wants to do it, invite people to your table or OSU all these communities that have platforms that have followers. Do something with that, outside of just shaking your what's called shoulders and dancing to the music. We should be purpose-oriented.
Speaker 2:The Oromo Community Center. We have a lot more to offer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Oromo.
Speaker 3:Community Center that's sitting there blank 90% of the time, that literally people use it for rehearsal space. We should be investing into it to create debate centers, youth centers, whatever it is, so that we can do something constructive instead of just leisure activities, you know, inviting counselors that are that are going to be able to do um pro bono work there you know, for all workshop, mental health workshops there, career networking spaces, education, education centers yeah, put money into the community.
Speaker 1:Y'all put time and effort outside of dance activities, yeah okay, last thing, as an actionable item, I would say uh, try one new thing and bring an aroma person with you absolutely.
Speaker 2:I with you, absolutely. I'll end it there and I think that's the best suggestion. Thank you both and I do want to kind of encourage the you know the communities to get involved. Parents, please continue to have conversation with your kids. Don't be afraid to take risk. It's important at home, even outside of the community, and do not like allow your kids to be afraid going out there and if they're trying something new, allow them to experiment that with you within on under your supervision, obviously, um. So we want to appreciate our listeners and my co-host. Thank you so much for incredible conversation in depth of ways to grow our community and collectively kind of see each other and understand each other and support one another With that difficult conversations.
Speaker 1:Thank you, y'all. Okay, bye. Join the conversation in the comment section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.
Speaker 2:MBC All relation to MBC.